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SPEAKER_07: Hey listeners, it's Jenny. We are devastated by the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. We knew it was coming, but that doesn't lessen how heavy it feels. You might have questions about what happens now. What does resisting bans and seeking care look like in a world without federal protection of abortion access? How can we build community and support the most vulnerable? How are abortion providers in states where abortion was already severely restricted working around the system? Our newest season of Ordinary Equality, Out Now, explores the future of abortion access and stories of survival and resistance in a post-Roe world. For those searching for answers and hope during this devastating time, this is a must listen. Stay tuned for episode one and find Ordinary Equality wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_10: I'm Kate Kelly. And I'm Jameela Wilson. And this is Ordinary Equality.
SPEAKER_17: This is something central to a woman's life, to her dignity. It's a decision that she must make for herself.
SPEAKER_00: From Kansas, Kentucky, and North Carolina, dedicated women marched. Abortion is fast becoming the new political fault line. My body, my choice!
SPEAKER_11: My body, my choice! My body, my choice!
SPEAKER_16: My body, my choice! Alabama's governor has signed the nation's strictest abortion ban into law. The Human Life Protection Act outlaws the procedure except when the mother's life is at risk.
SPEAKER_20: This bill is not about pro-life or the right to life. This bill is about control. We will not go back!
SPEAKER_11: And we, the people of the United States of America, documented or undocumented, are having abortions, legal or not. This court will never stop us.
SPEAKER_10: Jameela. Hey, Kate. So here we are. I don't really know what to say. We're on the other side of what we've been talking about for years, what many people have been talking about for decades. Roe versus Wade has been struck down. And for the first times in our lifetime, abortion is no longer protected.
SPEAKER_08: We knew this was coming, and it just still feels so much worse than we thought it would. I had a visceral reaction. I let out a very ugly, bodily, visceral cry, and it was really deep and painful. And I was almost late for my flight to France, where I am right now as we tape this. Because I just couldn't move.
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, about 20 minutes after the decision came down, I packed up posters in a little grocery cart, and I ran over to the Supreme Court. I just wanted to be there, just to be around other people. And I think being there at the court, it very much felt like so many people felt like it was political theater. Like there's media and there's camera, and they're trying to tape everything, and they're interviewing people. And to a lot of people, I think this feels like something for pundits, something that will be a splash and then will go away. And that was a devastating realization to me, because this impacts real people. This impacts people that we know. This impacts millions of women and pregnant people across the country. And they're going to have to start making some very tough decisions and facing obstacles and barriers and pain and heartache and danger and peril that they should not have to face. This is a basic human right. And so to see people treat it as though it's some anomaly or some interesting thing that's happening in the news or like the latest cause célèbre is very, very, very disheartening, because this is real and this will hurt real people.
SPEAKER_08: And that's the part that just put me in a place of shock and terror, because having worked an abortion hotline, having been on the front lines of this work, having worked at Planned Parenthood, I know that what they have done is a death note. Forced birth as a death note. And that all of this is about power and control. And that none of this is about providing quality of life. My friend, Diana, talks about how we should talk about how we are pro quality of life, because what they are promoting is a pro death of women who won't be able to get access to healthcare and services. A friend here who lives in France said to me while we were together today at lunch that here, this is a healthcare procedure like any other healthcare procedure that someone would seek out when they needed to get care that was between them and their doctor. And it just outrageous me that in a country where there's no healthcare, where there's no comprehensive healthcare access for all people, no programs to support education and equality in education from pre-K to higher ed for all in need, no equal pay that we are being expected to submit to this.
SPEAKER_10: Because if they care- No parental leave. No parental leave, exactly. No parental leave. We can't even get formula for babies that are born. There's no support for parents. There's no support for poor people. It's just not right. It's unjust. And I think that's why we're here today. Why are we doing a podcast? And I think for me, it's because I can't just do nothing. We both actively work for and engage in organizations that fight for abortion access. But I think we also need to talk through and think about the future. And I hope folks who are listening can go on that journey with us. It's so fresh, but we wanna talk about how we survive, how we build community, how we are going to make it through. And so that we don't go back to what happened before 1973, that we collectively use our time and talents and efforts and everything that we can do to build a place that's safe. We now know we can't rely on the government. We can't rely on the court. And so we have to rely on each other.
SPEAKER_08: So we're gonna spend a lot of time this season talking to people across the country and around the world. People at the intersections of activism, culture, and reproductive health. People who are adapting, who are building support networks, who are showing up right now, who are doing the work.
SPEAKER_10: Speaking of people who are doing the work, I wanna share a story with you. Please, please. Okay, it's a story that kind of embodies something that we already know, which is that abortion access in this country has not been a reality for a lot of people for a really long time. Even before Roe fell, 89% of counties in the United States had no abortion provider. I'm just stunned by the fact
SPEAKER_08: that I was stunned by that number. And I don't think a lot of people know that number. And it feels that it's a part of the design focusing so much on the misinformation rather than the information that could help us
SPEAKER_10: create actual solutions. Yeah, and I think for me, it was really important to talk to someone who knew what this reality was like already. I think we can all be better ourselves in this new world post-Roe. And I don't think anyone knows better than this incredible abortion advocate
SPEAKER_04: that I sat down with recently. My name is Erin Smith. I am the executive director of the Kentucky Health Justice Network.
SPEAKER_10: The Kentucky Health Justice Network, or KHJN, is this really amazing system of volunteers that helps people throughout Kentucky get reproductive and abortion care, supporting trans and non-binary folks. Erin is a lifelong Kentuckian and a preacher's kid, and they themselves are non-binary. We're talking to Erin because the story takes place in their home state.
SPEAKER_04: And one thing that I can say is that Kentucky has had one heck of a year.
SPEAKER_10: And really, it hasn't even been a whole year yet. We're focusing on Kentucky for a couple reasons, but mainly because of this House bill called HB3. The Kentucky House Legislature introduced it back in February.
SPEAKER_04: So, Kentucky had already a trigger law in place. Basically, the opposition has made a backup to their backup to their backup.
SPEAKER_10: HB3 is this 60-page monster bill that was designed to basically obliterate any remaining abortion access in the state. It banned all abortions after 15 weeks. It banned telehealth appointments for medication abortions. It required anyone who received a surgical abortion to file a birth slash death certificate, which makes their names public record. And it had all these reporting requirements that the state literally could not fulfill. It was so chaotic and had so many unrealistic elements that a lot of people just didn't think it would actually pass, including Ashley Jacobs, KHJN's operations director. Ashley started at KHJN four years ago as a hotline volunteer. Today, she manages everything from payroll to transportation crew, which physically picks people up for appointments.
SPEAKER_09: Like, I knew that they wouldn't be prepared to actually have those things in place when the bill went through, so I was hoping that they would use their brains to say, like, this isn't something that we can actually physically do. They weren't prepared to have this bill, like, really go into place when it passed. But it did pass, despite all of that?
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, despite all of that,
SPEAKER_10: HB3 passed at the end of March. However, Kentucky is actually pretty interesting politically. They've got a Democratic governor, and in early April, he actually vetoed HB3. But they also have a Republican supermajority in the House and Senate, and we knew that they would be able to overturn the veto
SPEAKER_09: if they wanted. It was expected. It was disappointing, but it was expected.
SPEAKER_10: A week later, the House and Senate met. Ashley was at the Capitol in Frankfurt. Yep, that's the capital of Kentucky. That day on April 13th.
SPEAKER_09: We weren't gonna go down without a fight. We were still gonna be there to make sure that, like, they knew that, like, Kentuckians didn't want this. Man of our bodies! Man of our bodies!
SPEAKER_21: Man of our bodies! Man of our bodies! Protesters making their voices heard as lawmakers override the governor's veto on House Bill 3, which restricts drug-induced abortions. At any stage right now in your pregnancy,
SPEAKER_07: abortion care will not be accessible in the Commonwealth.
SPEAKER_10: People from the ACLU, KHJN, Planned Parenthood, the Kentucky Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, all these folks who dedicated their lives to abortion access were there.
SPEAKER_09: There's, like, a rotunda, and then kind of upstairs from the rotunda, there are two pathways and then two sets of stairs, and one set of stairs goes to the House and another set of stairs goes to the Senate. So when it was being vetoed in the House, we were on, like, one side of the rotunda chanting. There's no more voting! And making our voices heard, and then when it was being heard in the Senate, we moved over to the other side so we could make our voices heard to the Senate. There's no more voting! I think people were pretty energized for the most part, and then, like, as the day kind of progressed, and it got closer and closer to the veto, I think people did become a little more angry and a little more frustrated because it was so much closer to it actually happening that it was time to really, like, process it.
SPEAKER_10: And then it actually happened. The veto was overturned, and HB3 had a special provision that made it go into effect immediately.
SPEAKER_09: And I was kind of sad about it because I knew that it was going to close the clinics, but we just didn't know for how long. Like, I had high hopes that it would just be for, like, a day or two, but it ended up being for eight days that the clinics were closed.
SPEAKER_10: We're going to take a break, and we'll be right back. I know it's been an emotional time. Many are justifiably furious, sad, and disheartened. But, of course, that doesn't mean we can stop fighting. So I want to take a minute to tell you about how you can get involved in supporting abortion access, no matter where you live. Our sponsor, ActBlue, has tools to help you support reproductive justice groups or abortion funds at every level, whether it's local or national. If you go to actblue.com slash directory, you can easily find local, state, and national groups to donate to or even create your own fundraising forms. These forms are quick and simple to set up. And most importantly, they're designed to be shared with your personal networks, making it easy for you to send donation asks directly to people and groups in your own community. So take action now and head to actblue.com backslash directory to start making an impact on abortion today. So on April 14th, the day after Ashley had been yelling in the Capitol, the state's only two abortion clinics closed. It was the first time that had happened in the country in 49 years, a state with absolutely no abortion providers anywhere. And it stayed that way for eight days. There was no way to get a legal abortion in the state of Kentucky. So it was really like living post-Roe.
SPEAKER_10: Why? Because even though this is the first time that the clinics had closed, there had already been a lot of barriers for a lot of Kentuckians for a really long time. There are 126 counties in the state of Kentucky,
SPEAKER_09: and only one county actually has an abortion provider. That makes it difficult for people who are traveling from like Paducah or Bowling Green or, you know, Eastern Kentucky, Whitesburg, different areas, having to come into Louisville for those procedures and I don't know the exact statistic, but I know like of the 126 counties, I think only like a very small percentage of those counties actually have like an OBGYN. And that situation is not uncommon.
SPEAKER_08: With Roe still in place, Missouri, West Virginia, Mississippi, North Dakota, South Dakota, these are all states with just one clinic. In Wyoming and Nebraska, the average distance that a person has to travel to just reach a clinic is over 100 miles. There were already a lot of people who were forced to stay pregnant because they just can't get to a clinic. They can't miss work. They can't get a sitter. They can't drive 100 miles. They can't get over the state line. I've known someone who couldn't get money to pay for gas and hotel in a state where there was a 24-hour rule. And that made her end up with a life-changing decision that she wouldn't have otherwise made.
SPEAKER_10: Yeah, and right now KHJN actually works to fill that gap in access. They drive those people hundreds of miles. They help them pay to get across state lines. They help them find childcare. And because of that, they also need to know all the laws in the surrounding states, not just Missouri, but...
SPEAKER_09: Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and Ohio, and Illinois. Yeah, it's a lot.
SPEAKER_08: It's incredible that these amazing volunteers are creating a safety net that, frankly, the government should provide, but that they, the people, have come together to make sure that people in need of care get what they need and that they do it despite dire circumstances. Yeah, and this is how it works. It's kind of old school.
SPEAKER_10: You call the hotline... ...and you leave a message. Thank you for calling Kentucky Health Justice Network's Abortion Support Fund.
SPEAKER_03: Sigue aumensaje en español.
SPEAKER_10: You let them know what kind of support you're looking for, so transportation, childcare, lodging, money, and if they can leave a message when they call you back. We will do our best to return your call within 24 hours.
SPEAKER_03: The call may come from an out-of-state or unknown number. And they always call you back.
SPEAKER_10: They always say, yes, we can help. So, what did change when HB3 passed and the clinics in Kentucky closed?
SPEAKER_10: Ashley said more or less it was business as usual.
SPEAKER_09: We were very fortunate that people could do their first appointments at the Louisville Planned Parenthood and then do the 18-hour waiting period and then travel to Indiana for their procedures. I know that's not ideal by any means, but it really helped with a lot of the travel needs that people had. So, if they could get to the Planned Parenthood in Louisville or the Planned Parenthood in Lexington, the doctors are licensed in both Kentucky and Indiana. And so, they were able to do their first appointment at L'Ovoir, Lexington, and then move to have their procedures done in Indiana.
SPEAKER_10: It was basically a patchwork situation, different strategies sewn together to create a safety net for KHJN's clients, a lot of whom are trans and non-binary, and already living with a lot of barriers to care. And Aaron Smith, KHJN's executive director, knew it was temporary. Those eight days were brutal, but they knew an injunction was coming. They just didn't know when. Eventually, HB3 was blocked by a federal judge. Louisville's two clinics had argued that meeting the bill's requirements would end all abortion in the state, and the court actually listened. But that block was only temporary. Remember what Aaron said at the beginning of this episode? A backup to a backup to a backup. HB3 was just a backup to Kentucky's trigger law. And just in case, there's now a constitutional amendment on the ballot this November. If it passes, no one in the state of Kentucky will legally have a right to an abortion.
SPEAKER_04: I am honestly scared for my state because the leaders now are not creating a Kentucky where people want to live. It's not a place where you want to raise a child, to be completely honest, unless you're a white, cis, heteronuclear-type family where you never had to worry about being oppressed. You've never had all these things happen. But for people like me and my community and my friends and my family, it's kind of like, even my parents are very encouraging. It's like, you know, if you have to leave, we understand, which is very, very sad. And it was a very serious conversation. This is becoming a state where we are seeing you being attacked. And that's a conversation that is happening more and more. So it's creating this environment that, honestly, Kentucky is going to really have a hard time hanging on to a future.
SPEAKER_10: We talked to Erin and Ashley before the Dobbs Supreme Court ruling came down. With the fall of Roe, there isn't going to be an injunction. Abortion access in Kentucky isn't going to come back in a matter of days.
SPEAKER_04: So our geography makes this very unique, but we are honestly prepared to just start having to send people to other areas. And that is our only option. We would love to see safe at home abortions by mail. We would love to see the growth of that. But because policymakers are already, you know, they're learning quick. And they know, like, they're knowing all these things. They're trying to create laws and policies that shut that down. We are looking in times where our board members and our staff members and our volunteers are going to be like, hey, what is your limit?
SPEAKER_10: What is your limit? I think for people in Erin's line of work, that's a really scary question. Because what people mean when they ask about the limit is, when will you start getting sued? When will you start getting arrested? When will you have to start saying no?
SPEAKER_10: Ashley, the operations director, kept using the word disheartened to describe her state of mind. And I mean, it's just so defeating. Because for Ashley and for Erin and for KHJN, roe falling is not a door slamming shut because that door was already barely open. And the light could still get through, but they had to prop it open. And now it's just creaked closed. And I think when I look forward to the coming months and years in a post-Roe America, I think about people like them on the ground who have been doing this work, who have been preparing, who are defiant, and are going to help people get the care they need, no matter what. No matter where it becomes banned, no matter where we go as a country, we are here for us. Amen.
SPEAKER_08: I am often annoyed that so many of the people we often hear from, amplified the most, the most visible, are the people who might be taking stock of this issue now because it's trending, but didn't have their boots on the ground many years ago when we told folks that this was coming. A lot of people, and I've seen this particularly from white women, want to reinvent the wheel,
SPEAKER_10: or there's a lot of heroics going on like, I will have people in my cabin. But what they don't realize is there are already people who already have established these networks and need the support. You may be new to this crisis, but this crisis is not new. And so everyone who wants to jump in and get involved has to get involved. Everyone who believes in freedom is now an abortion activist, period. But the way that you can get involved is plug in to these existing networks and these people who have been working on the ground for years, if not decades. And that's where we're going to go with this season. We're going to talk to incredible people who have been doing this work, who are well connected, who you may not have heard of. They're not pundits on television talking about abortion access. They are doing abortion access, and they are the ones who can show us the path forward. Next week on Ordinary Equality. She moved out in 2016. We opened the clinic knowing there are people out here who have shown no limits to what they will do to prevent abortion access.
SPEAKER_10: Ordinary Equality is a Wonder Media Network production. This episode was produced by Mattie Foley and Alex John Burns. Our editor is Lindsay Cradewell. Our executive producer is Jenny Kaplan. Big thanks to our sponsor, ActBlue. Remember to donate to funds and clinics today.
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