SPEAKER_01: I'm going all in, wet your beak, wet your beak, wet your beak I'm going all in, let your winners ride
SPEAKER_06: Rain Man David Saks
SPEAKER_07: I'm going all in, and it said We open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it Love you Saks, I'm the queen of Kinwa
SPEAKER_00: Let your winners ride, let your winners ride, let your winners ride Besties are gone That's my dog taking a nice near driveway Saks Oh man My haberdasher will meet me at Blinston We should all just get a room and have one big huge door because they're all confused It's like this sexual tension but they just need to release them out Let your the beak, wet your beak, wet your beak We need to get merch, these are facts
SPEAKER_06: I'm going all in I'm going all in Alright, and we're back and thank you to Young Spielberg with the All In 1.5 Extended Edition remix with Going All In Thank you to the super fans
SPEAKER_02: That was really incredible actually Thanks Young Spielberg
SPEAKER_06: Shout out Young Spielberg The dictator Chamath Palihapitiya The Rain Man himself, David Saks is definitely an excellent driver and his dad lets him drive in the driveway and the queen of Kinwa spectacular David Friedberg is with us We did an emergency pod, we just had all agreed We're taking a nice break Nothing's going to happen over the new year, this is the down period and 2021 is going to be delightful and simple and then all hell breaks loose We could start with the vaccine, we could start with the Capitol We could start with Georgia
SPEAKER_02: No, we have to start with the Capitol We have to start with the Capitol
SPEAKER_06: Alright, so let me just run through the series of events that occur here There's a certification process, correct, Saks, that goes on where the electoral college gets counted and somewhere at 10am Trump had a rally of thousands of supporters You were not there, David, correct? You weren't at this rally
SPEAKER_02: He was in quote unquote Miami Right, I think he's in the Miami Hilton
SPEAKER_06: on Pennsylvania Avenue right now had he put up that fake Miami background but the truth is, let's be honest here Trump came out at 10am and had a rally
SPEAKER_02: Jason, can we just take a start back for a second Doesn't David Saks look like Elliot Gould in Ocean's Eleven right now? He kind of does He's so Elliot Gould He is a Silver Fox and are you
SPEAKER_06: I mean, you were very public about being in Miami over the new year, you took your talents to Miami and we see this background so we can assume that dictators in his pool house poker room, we know that Freeburg's in a Ritz-Carlton somewhere based on the furniture He's in his Ritz-Carlton office And Saks, based on your background, are you in Miami right now? Yeah, I'm still here
SPEAKER_07: Okay, but David, did you meet with the mayor or not? I haven't, I actually met him I did meet him, I went to like a tech event the other night and he was there Were you wearing masks at the tech event or not?
SPEAKER_02: Were you wearing a mask?
SPEAKER_07: They were like masks in No, no, no, I'll tell you there were masks indoors and then there was like COVID testing inside and then you could graduate to the outdoor patio part where people generally weren't wearing masks So were you in conversations with people
SPEAKER_06: with no masks on? Is that what you're saying? At this event?
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, but you know, everyone's been like COVID tested like a zillion times and it was outdoors and you know, I'm willing to meet with people outdoors You know, I generally don't do it indoors, but I'm I've said that's my policy starting several months ago David, do you-
SPEAKER_03: Can we rewind to April with that photo of Sax Do we have it? Where he was in the ski mask and the goggles and the helmet and like the biohazard suit
SPEAKER_04: and like how things have changed, he's like I'll go to Miami and have a chat with someone Yeah, look, you could
SPEAKER_07: you could definitely do how it started and how it's going, split photo for it But look, at the time- You're like sharing a banana split with someone
SPEAKER_04: like, you know, like
SPEAKER_05: He's literally on eBay in Alibaba buying ventilators for his home triage center Well, I mean, we had people from the WHO saying
SPEAKER_07: in March that the, you know, that the case the infection fatality rate was like 7%, you know and the two big things we learned after that were number one, that there was a huge distribution by age, right? And so somebody under 50 without comorbidities had a much, much, much lower risk And then also the thing we learned is that the there's maybe a 10x difference between the infection fatality rate and the case fatality rate I mean, you guys know all this Yeah And so once we learned those things I mean, you know, I think a rational person takes things like that into account I changed my policy with respect to COVID And now, especially that we have you know, easy access to tests which weren't available, you can get tested before going into an event I have a question to add on to that
SPEAKER_02: Do you own a fur Chewbacca outfit? And were you in Washington, D.C. yesterday? With more paint on
SPEAKER_03: With more paint on your nipples Do you have a podium? Do you have a neck to waist tattoo?
SPEAKER_04: Are you standing behind a podium?
SPEAKER_07: Let me hide the Viking horns that I've got stashed away here All right, listen
SPEAKER_03: There was a great Can we title yesterday's event National Lampoon Siege of the Capitol? It was like Animal House, like, you know Yeah, there was a great tweet by somebody saying
SPEAKER_07: this was like the storming of the Bastille as perpetrated by the cast of Animal House And there was another great tweet saying the Capitol now appears to be under the control of a man in a Viking mask The best one was
SPEAKER_05: I have lost all respect for Nicholas Cage's ability to steal the U.S. Constitution
SPEAKER_02: Apparently Yeah, whatever copies
SPEAKER_05: All right, so let's just go through the chain of events here
SPEAKER_06: And it was absolutely surreal because Trump literally went out to a mob of people and said, I want you to march down Pennsylvania Avenue and show the GOP what it takes to have courage, etc. Mike Pence apparently told Trump that he was not going to go to bat for him in this ceremonial process of counting the votes And lo and behold you're watching this, you know, the objections going on to the electoral count and you see the Secret Service come rushing in and it becomes a, you know, very serious situation And when you watch some of the videos it is truly terrorizing that thousands of people are going to be terrorizing that thousands of people overwhelmed the police And I guess I want to start with people's opinion on Trump's copability in inciting what was very dangerous behavior, four people are dead So while we're joking about the cosplay outfits a woman who was an ardent Trump supporter who is a vet, who did four tours from what I've read and I shared the video with you before literally, you know, as they broke into the building was trying to breach another area of the building and she's climbing through a window and gets shot apparently by the Secret Service or the police and dies And so it's all fun and games until four people are dead and now somebody's lost their wife, daughter, sister No, but Jason, I mean, there could have been 400 dead
SPEAKER_02: there could have been 4,000 dead Absolutely, yeah, I mean this could have become a shootout at the O.K. Corral
SPEAKER_06: I can't understand why the police showed the restraint they did I mean, when you see them getting surrounded, I don't know if you saw the one They didn't show restraint, Jason, there was no police
SPEAKER_02: When you look at the amount of security that's typically there and has been there for other situations and then you compare it to the amount of security knowing for a month and a half that this was coming it just doesn't make any sense to me So I'm a little dumbfounded that you couldn't have seen this Facebook group called, you know, hashtag Storm the Capitol which had tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of members in there plotting and scheming, selling merchandise called Storm the Capitol You know, these guys were wearing printed sweatshirts that they had time to make and nobody knew about it and nobody thought to reinforce the security and barricade it and make sure that you couldn't go from the protest site to the Capitol I mean, it just seems like there's some level of complicity that needs to get found out here But there was an interview I saw with an ex-DC police guy who said that
SPEAKER_03: I think folks were told to tamper down the police forces were told to tamper down on managing crowds and protests and riots following the controversy associated with BLM a few months ago and spraying folks with pepper spray and water and all the physical techniques that were used were so outraging that there was just more of a systemic concern about being too aggressive with protesters and as a result they went too far the other way It just happens to be, Friedberg, that when black people protested and brown people
SPEAKER_06: they got the tear gas and beaten with batons and then when the white people stormed the Capitol in the same area they got walked down the steps and escorted out with a stern warning to not do it again I mean, this is hypocritical and insane
SPEAKER_07: I don't know why you have to go there particularly It looked to me like what happened is that the Capitol Hill police simply got completely overwhelmed You look at these giant... this is a rally on the mall that turned into a mob Well, first it kind of turned into a tailgater then it turned into a mob and then it turned into an insurrection It kind of stumbled forward into progressive phases of stupidity and disaster But it looked to me like the Capitol Hill police simply got overwhelmed They obviously were unprepared, they were surprised I think by this and I saw video of tons of tear gas being used I saw people getting tear gassed like crazy and I think there was reports this morning on Twitter that the whole area in front of the Capitol there was covered in that light film that remains after tear gassing So I don't think they were really pulling punches too much and I also think that there will be prosecutions I think that these people were captured on video There's a lot of talk on Twitter and everybody is in favor of finding out who they are applying facial recognition and bringing charges So I think there will be a lot of charges unlike let's say the BLM protests this summer I don't remember anybody getting charged based on video of people rioting or looting And then I think the final difference actually with the BLM protests is that if you've watched Fox News at all in the last 24 hours the condemnation of the storming of the Capitol of what happened has been across the board, both right and left Everybody across the political spectrum has condemned it Nobody is apologizing for it, nobody on the right is looking for root causes to explain the reasons why it happened Everybody is just condemning it and saying that it should never have happened and the people who did it should be prosecuted So I don't see any kid gloves here being used I'll tell you where I see the kid gloves sacks
SPEAKER_06: is when you see officers being chased up the steps or taking selfies, which is one instance I don't want to just say that's the only indicative thing but when people are breaking through windows and just kind of being let go, I mean they were obviously overwhelmed but I'm surprised more people didn't get shot Chamath, let's just tackle this head on in terms of the race issue I have a question for David before I make my statement
SPEAKER_02: David, do you think that if this were black and brown people storming the Capitol would there have been more or less than four deaths?
SPEAKER_07: Honestly I think it would have been the same I disagree
SPEAKER_06: I really disagree and I'll tell you why
SPEAKER_02: I think you have the best of intentions wanting to think that way but here's the way I see it I see a president that basically instigated a group of people who are fundamentally disenfranchised Let's face it, there are a lot of very, very reasonable Republicans and a lot of very reasonable Democrats The fringes of both parties are functionally mentally retarded We know this, okay? And so what you see are extreme on both sides who are just completely lost and looking for any excuse And so you have a president in the tail end of his presidency a anonymous presidency basically call them out Nobody who actually had a job or anything to do could show up, right? So you had all these people show up It's a Wednesday It's a Wednesday, during the day I mean, and what do you think happens? They're there, they're all frothed up Eric Trump frothing them up, Donald Trump Jr. frothing them up Trump frothing them up, Giuliani frothing them up and all of a sudden, as you said stumbling into degrees of craziness and stupidity to storm the Capitol And I just think to myself how could a president instigate this kind of action? Number one The second thing I think about is when black athletes peacefully protested something that they had the fundamental constitutional right to protest in the president's eyes, they were sons of bitches White people that stormed the fucking Capitol the people's house were called patriots by the president's daughter and then were told that they were loved by the president himself
SPEAKER_02: To me, it's just an enormously stark contrast of a double standard I think that beyond the persecutions of the people I actually feel very bad for the people that stormed the Capitol I feel like these are folks that are on the fringes who just need a vessel and Trump is a vessel and then he instigates them and runs away You know what I mean? He's a coward, he's lost These are lost people Then these guys commit the crime and now they're going to go to jail I feel like the culpability has to go all the way back to Trump, to Hawley, to Cruz Those are the real scumbags in all of this Freeburg, what are your thoughts on this?
SPEAKER_06: And then I'll go back to Sacks and let him respond
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if this was a Black Lives Matter and it was Black people involved or brown people involved in the same sorts of activities you saw yesterday that you would not see more shootings I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take Obviously, I think there's this other circumstance which is that event preceding this one As I mentioned, I saw an interview with a D.C. police former police director of the police or someone, I forgot what his title was where he highlighted that folks were instructed to stand down following the BLM controversies So I think that's also a reasonable point of view What about the president's culpability?
SPEAKER_06: I think that's one issue that's going to have to be addressed post and I think we have to figure out what life post-Trump is going to be like because this is a level of chaos that nobody, to Sacks' point, all people condemned There's a theory which actually takes its origin from Hitler
SPEAKER_03: where Hitler used this term, the big lie and the theory is that you can create political propaganda by saying something that's so outrageous it is so improbable that people say there's no way this thing keeps getting said over and over unless it's actually real and this is sort of like the QAnon pedophile ring in the pizzeria or the fact that the election was stolen from you It is such an outrageous statement that it seems to people that it only has to be true because it is such an insane thing and if it is, it's so insane and I am so incited by this thing So this is kind of acknowledged as being a political propaganda technique that goes back a long time By the way, Hitler used it as a way to, used it as almost like a double bluff to blame the Jews in Germany which was an unfortunate kind of origin of the term but the term is used a lot now in saying these sorts of events are ridiculous Now, what's going to happen going forward? I don't think big lies go away You can try and mute them on Twitter and mute them on Facebook or mute them on Reddit but whether it's QAnon or whatever is next this is becoming kind of a standard form now because of the way media is distributed Anyone can say a big lie and it gets a lot of listeners and Trump is totally culpable for that He made some shit up, he made a bunch of claims I mean, if you guys haven't seen Lindsey Graham's speech yesterday it is absolutely worth watching that he gave late last night I saw it, I saw it And he's like, I asked for the, show me the 10, give me 10 people that claim that they voted and they were under 18 He's like, they gave you one Give me anyone that was in prison or died and they gave me zero And he's like, goes on and on for a couple minutes about how none of what was said about what happened in the election was true and it was all false and he's like, this is all just not true And so I think Trump is culpable for creating a falsehood and, you know, having a megaphone and, you know, there are certain technologies What about the inciting of violence? That is, I think, where the rubber is going to meet the road
SPEAKER_06: Trump's going to be out of office in two weeks or less one way or the other Do you, and let me just take it to Saxe Saxe, I want to give you the time to respond to the issue of the double standard in terms of race and BLM And then also, do you, Saxe, if you're on Biden's team coming in do you advise that you prosecute Trump or investigate Trump for this insurrection, yes or no? Okay, so just to tie off on the BLM issue, I just, you know, I just fundamentally don't think that race is the issue here
SPEAKER_07: Chamath, look, I don't know at the end of the day what the fatalities would have been if it had been a BLM protest that went awry But I will stick to what I said before, which is I predict that you will see more prosecutions come out of this of the people who are involved, I'm talking about the people who stormed the Capitol than we saw from all the BLM protests over the summer I mean, I don't remember any prosecutions coming out of video tape of people being caught, recorded, looting and rioting And I predict you will see more here And again, I think another difference, again, to the extent there's a double standard I remember a lot of left-wing news networks calling the rioting and looting this summer peaceful protests which they clearly were not You even had a book called In Defense of Looting And I don't hear anybody defending the storming of the Capitol, nobody on the right So look, to the extent there's a double standard, I don't know that it accrues to the BLM side of this But look, I think that's kind of beside the point and not the real issue here I mean, Jason, to your question of is Trump responsible? Yes, I mean, clearly 100% 100% Yes, because he is the one who put forth this theory that the election was stolen and was constantly repeating it for the last two months Two months ago, right after the election, there was an article published in the Spectator called Deplorables Don't Riot It was actually a pretty good op-ed It was written by a conservative And the conservative's point was that all these windows and shops have been boarded up in anticipation of potential rioting and looting with the election And all these conservatives are saying, well, who are they afraid of? Not us, not the MAGA folks Well, and the theory was, deplorables don't riot And the right was proud of that two months ago And now we are seeing that, well, no, the deplorables are rioting Why is that? What changed over the last two months? And what changed is the constant feeding to this group of people This idea, starting with Trump but then perpetuated by different right-wing media organizations And other politicians who sort of were trying to curry favor with Trump They were constantly pushing forward this idea that the election was stolen So that these people on the mall who then riot and storm the capitol believe that the election was being stolen from them So, you know, ultimately that responsibility is Trump's So to be clear, and reflecting back to you, you're saying Trump incited sedation
SPEAKER_06: Is that the right word? Well
SPEAKER_07: Sedition Sedition doesn't seem like the wrong, doesn't seem like the exact right word to me A riot? It was certainly a riot Now, look, you're talking about prosecuting a legal case If you want to look at the legal standard for incitement, it has to be provoking people to take an imminent lawless act That's pretty close I think he, if you want to see this mob as a gun, I think he loaded the gun He pointed it in a certain direction, but did he tell them to storm the capitol? No, not specifically I think therefore it would be a very hard case to prosecute But I think, you know, prosecuting him in a court of law is sort of unnecessary and redundant I mean, I think that in the eyes of the public, politically, he is, I think most people see that he's culpable Is that the end of his political career?
SPEAKER_06: I think he's, I think he's disqualified himself from being a candidate, you know, at a national level again
SPEAKER_07: I mean, if you look, again, just go back two months ago Look at how much has changed Two months ago, just in the day or two after the election, Trump had narrowly lost But there was talk of him starting a new news network to rival Fox There was talk about he could even be a candidate again in 2024 It was not off the table I think now it's clearly off the table And you've seen, it's partly because of the Georgia runoffs, which we should get to But again, the Republican candidates, at least one of them had won that election two months ago And now they lost, and that has a lot to do with Trump's antics in the meantime Of just feeding this constant, you know, lie about the stolen election
SPEAKER_03: I think there's a really important question about, you know, sorry, but is it worth prosecuting Trump post-fact? You know, does that do more harm or good for the country as a whole? Certainly there will be a lot of people that will get great satisfaction of putting Trump in prison A lot of people are calling for that But we really do need to question the incredible divide in the nation And what's the best way to heal the divide The objective shouldn't be pursuing justice It should be about moving forward I'm not suggesting don't prosecute Trump But I think that it's worthy of noting that, you know, there is another way of framing this whole thing Which is what's the best thing to do going forward On the flip side, you could even make the case that one of the best things Joe Biden could do today or tomorrow Is to announce a federal election review commission To actually look into wrongdoings at the state level with a bipartisan basis Oh yeah, 100% It's a slam-dunk case anyway If Biden did that and he, you know, he basically embraced the notion that a lot of folks are really angry about And said I'm listening to you, I'm hearing you, let me show you And at the same time they did not prosecute Trump And, you know, let him go off into the distance and do his own thing Maybe you start to kind of, you know, heal the rift a little bit But right now everyone's kind of inflamed and there is this like how do we prosecute him What do we do, you know, and we're just continuing to kind of escalate the dialogue and increase the rift
SPEAKER_07: I just, yeah, so look, I think prosecuting Trump at this point First of all, legally that might be a difficult case to prove Because of the need to prove that he was trying to provoke an imminent lawless action You know, if he had been at the barricades, you know, pushing people forward, yes But so I think legally it'd be a tough case and I think it'd be, like you said, it'd be unnecessarily divisive and partisan I don't know why we need to go there I mean, at the end of the day, any politician's stock and trade is their credibility and popularity And Trump has fundamentally damaged the perception of him, I think even among the right
SPEAKER_02: I have a huge issue with this and I'll tell you why It's because the folks that are now going to go to jail were instigated by this guy And the folks that were there in many ways were brought, they were cajoled, they were instigated to travel from Groomed Groomed to travel there, to take the time out of their lives, to basically then get fed this rhetoric And in a moment of just crazy mob-like mentality to act out at the behest of the leader of the free world There has to be a consequence not just to those people because they in many ways are not the person to prosecute To the extent that you are going to put some of these people in jail, which it looks like we're going to And by the way, let's be honest, there is no inconceivable way that these people get charged with a misdemeanor That's not going to stand, right? And the worst perpetrators of this when they get put in jail will get put in jail for 5 to 10 years minimum And so what are we going to do when we look at ourselves in the eye and say these poor Americans at the end of the day Who were instigated by this guy and he yet again gets off scot-free while hundreds of Americans who were basically In a peak of craziness fed by this guy does something and goes to jail and you have hundreds of lives and hundreds of families ruined Even if we don't find a way to basically put Trump in jail for this, I can 100% guarantee you I will bet a million bucks That now the Southern District of New York gloves off Every single state that can go after this guy gloves off and to the extent that Joe Biden had any incentive to basically Like let this go away at the federal level, gloves off In my opinion, I really think something can happen Let's say that folks do go after Trump, what does that do? If he gets put in jail or there's some criminal proceeding brought against him
SPEAKER_03: What does that do to the 50% of the nation that truly support him and truly care about him? Like the balance of justice versus unification, you know, how do we weigh that through? I think we're talking actually about 25% of the country free burn
SPEAKER_06: I think I don't even think it's that. Whatever it is, right? Or whatever it is, like there's obviously a big voting block and a big block of the potential block for the electoral college
SPEAKER_03: I think of the 70 million people that voted for Donald Trump
SPEAKER_02: I think there are half of them who would equally vote for a normal centrist candidate Mitt Romney, Nikki Haley
SPEAKER_02: And didn't necessarily believe in Donald Trump Then I think there's the other 35 million and I do think that there's a spectrum of those 35 And I think that you probably lost 10 or 15 million of them after the events of yesterday Where they just threw their hands up in the air and said, hey, wait a minute It would really only inflame 20 million is what you're saying
SPEAKER_03: Correct. And I agree with Chamath on that
SPEAKER_06: And those 20 million people are, you know, sad to say, concentrated in about 10 states that don't functionally matter economically or otherwise
SPEAKER_02: And so about the balance of justice for its unification, certainly it sounds like you're saying weighs heavily towards justice, right?
SPEAKER_03: Like more folks will benefit from seeing him come to justice or what perceived justice then I think what it will allow, I think it will allow the Republican Party to recenter itself
SPEAKER_02: I think that's better for politics. I think it's better for governance. It's better for America I think it allows a lot of people to basically wake up out of this haze that they've been in in four years and say, wow, wait a minute Enough's enough. Like I was on a really bad bender. I did a couple things I really regret and I need to recenter myself How do you not find this turning into a tit for tat Berlusconi, Italy, Brazil, Israel kind of phenomenon where, you know, future leaders are then attacked and challenged and taken to court
SPEAKER_03: The best tweet I saw on this was this woman tweeted out that the following she said, when the Democrats lost in 2016, they knitted pink hats and donated to Planned Parenthood
SPEAKER_07: No, they didn't. No, they didn't. They invented a ridiculous Russian conspiracy theory That like 10 people went to jail for
SPEAKER_06: The Russia hoax. The Russia hoax. No one went to jail for It's not a hoax, come on What? The Russians were obviously trying to interfere You're like the last person who still believes in this
SPEAKER_07: Well, listen, I still believe that they tried and I still believe I don't know that they succeeded, but I think they tried
SPEAKER_06: Mueller spent two years investigating this tens of millions of dollars, 25 FBI agents
SPEAKER_07: Those are all GOP talking points. The fact is Manafort went to jail
SPEAKER_06: For something completely unrelated
SPEAKER_07: You must be the last person who still believes that Trump won in 2016 because of Russian interference I think that they, I think he asked the Ukraine for help and I think he asked the Russians for help and I think that he would have gladly accepted the help
SPEAKER_06: Now, is it, was it a conspiracy like in the grand... No, it wasn't a conspiracy You can never know if it affected it, but this is the problem with your Russia talking point is that you're trying to just say because he didn't get prosecuted Which he's probably not going to get prosecuted for this either The guy is a serial offender Okay, and they were trying to get information from WikiLeaks and they were trying to get the hacks And so I don't know why you can so clearly see what he's doing, David, when he incites this violence And then you don't see that he would, he has no moral backbone or character and that he wouldn't accept foreign aid He's a treasonous bastard Here's my view, okay, here's my view is that when you lose an election as a candidate, you have to look in the mirror and ask what you did wrong, okay
SPEAKER_07: Trump failed to do that two months ago instead of just taking the L and you know, and he could have blamed it on the fact the vaccine was one week late I mean, there were, there were, you know, instead of just accepting the loss, he invented this conspiracy theory that the election was stolen And he's basically, like Freeberg said, been pumping it month after month and you know, his enablers, you know, have perpetuated until we had this, you know, total breakdown and storming of the Capitol But again, you know, where was the Democratic reassessment of why they lost in 2016? Who on the Democrat side looked in the mirror and said, you know, we shouldn't have lost that election, you know, what did we do wrong? They didn't do that. Instead, they blamed it all on Russian interference or Facebook, you know, all of a sudden Facebook went from being a darling to being a scapegoat And there was Russian ads being put with rubles and tons of link forms confirmed, done by the Russians in order to ferment anti Hillary sentiment
SPEAKER_06: I mean, this actually happened It's true, it's true Did it actually affect the election? Nobody can know that, but it did occur
SPEAKER_07: Yes we can, because yeah, it did, it did, some FSB back Okay, so now you're admitting there was Russian interference
SPEAKER_06: No, no, no, no So you were saying there wasn't and now you're saying there was I'm talking about, I'm talking about why some, but no, no, it's not because here's the, here's where you're being misleading
SPEAKER_07: Is, yes, is it true that there was some FSB operative somewhere buying ads on Facebook? Yes Hundreds of them, hundreds of them Out of thousands Out of billions of impressions, okay It was a microscopic number of total impressions of the election And the people who actually looked at those ads thought they were absurd Imagine some operative, hold on, let me finish my point Imagine some operative in Moscow trying to influence the American election by buying ads on Facebook Did they try? Yes Look, foreign intelligence services are trying all the time, okay But was that the real So they did try They did try, yes, but And did Trump and his family ask them to help?
SPEAKER_06: No, there was no proof of collusion, there was no proof of collusion, okay
SPEAKER_07: They didn't take the meeting, okay
SPEAKER_07: No, that's what Mueller, he spent two years investigating it and found no collusion Look, so my point is, again, we're getting off on a rabbit hole here But my point was, when you as a candidate lose an election, you have to take responsibility for that That was not done in 2016, it was not done certainly in 2020 by Trump It is the problem with both our political parties that they would rather invent conspiracy theories and lies Than acknowledge why people are rejecting them Yeah, I agree with this, I would say this
SPEAKER_02: But that is not the point David, you are right, okay Somewhere along the way, we got stuck worrying about the pronouns that we use And which bathroom should or should not be transgendered while the American middle class was completely gutted from pillar to post That is what's created the boundary conditions for this Every single time there's been an insurrection or an uprising or a revolution in America It has never been about ideology, it has always been about economics Always And economics is the tip of the spear in this country, whether we like it or not It started with the Boston Tea Party, it continued through the Civil War It has always been about that topic So, we all let it happen, we all have a responsibility to fix it That though is a topic I think for another day Because that's the grand arc of what we need to do in our generation and fix this inequality gap Meanwhile, we do have this tactical issue, which is you have the leader of the free world In my opinion, and I think in a lot of reasonable minded people's opinion Instigating essentially at a minimum a riot And at the maximum some form of like Treason Idiotic form of I mean, the problem is, it's just like, it's incomprehensible what it is I've fallen on the side that we need to prosecute him now
SPEAKER_06: I was 50-50 on this, but I'll tell you what's tipped me over Is, you know, if we don't prosecute him, there's this sort of like unfairness to it I think that's a very good point you made, Chamath But I also think that he is going, we need to wake people up from this fog they've been in To Friedberg, and I think we have to free the Republican Party to get back to some more version that is reasonable Like you are, Sax I would rather see you The Republican Party is already rejecting Trump
SPEAKER_07: So just look at what's happened in the last 24-48 hours Even after this storming of the Capitol, okay You had Republicans who were just hours before objecting to the electors They basically were saying, no, I've changed my mind Who was that? Lindsey Graham, but not Ted Cruz, not that other
SPEAKER_06: Kelly Loeffler Kelly Loeffler did it, and there were a few other ones who switched sides
SPEAKER_07: You had excellent speeches by Lindsey Graham and Romney, I agree with that They spoke very eloquently And just today Elaine Chao resigned as Secretary of Transportation I think that's mostly significant Who's left, David? She's Mitch McConnell's wife In the Republican Party Look, I think after Georgia, the Republican Party already blamed Trump for that And now after the storming of the Capitol, they're ready to be done with him This idea that you need to prosecute Trump to somehow end his relation with the Republican Party I think it will just backfire I don't think that's what the point is
SPEAKER_02: I think the point is that nobody is above the law And when you lead, you know, the thing with the people that attended this rally is in any other situation And Jason, you said it earlier, these are our veterans These are the people that are working good jobs They're trying to just keep America going They've always believed in American exceptionalism There was nothing wrong with that It was just perverted by this fucking scumbag He is a complete piece of shit fucking scumbag He's garbage And I think that's why you have to prosecute him
SPEAKER_06: I think you have to make an example of him I know that with Nixon they took a different approach But I just think he's too dangerous to leave unprosecuted Because every time he has some bad behavior Whether it was the Ukraine, whether it's Russia we can debate what level they wanted to engage with the Russians Or in the case of this riotous behavior I think he's not going to stop That's the thing that I fear I don't think he's going to stop
SPEAKER_02: I would rather take every single person arrested And give them zero days in jail And add it all up and give it to Trump Well, I wouldn't
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I agree with you to some degree that they were victims of this two-month propaganda campaign To convince the right that this election was stolen I think a lot of those people who were storming the Capitol They were there not to steal an election Because they thought they were there to prevent the stealing of an election And so yes, they have been duped by a lot of people Including, you know, leading with Trump But including a lot of other people who should have known better But that being said, they did make the decision to hop the barricade, smash the windows, go into the Capitol There is some personal responsibility that has to occur Absolutely, yeah And that's the tragedy of this woman
SPEAKER_06: Let's talk about this woman for a second And I think it's important to look at this specific case This is a person who is a veteran And she was inside the halls already
SPEAKER_06: And was trying to breach another area And she was just shot dead by Secret Service They might have been protecting the VP They might have been protecting Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell Who knows But they shot her dead Yeah, I saw it on video
SPEAKER_07: I mean, it's on video It's unbelievable
SPEAKER_06: And I mean, coming from a law enforcement family I can tell you that's a clean shooting If she was breaching and they told her, do not come in here, we're going to shoot you And they were protecting, the Secret Service is protecting an asset They're allowed to shoot you Like, you can't jump that And she's a military vet, she's from the Air Force I mean, what is in her mind How wound up was she by Trump And by this propaganda That when they told her, do not breach the second door inside there By the way, you just said the key word, you cannot be spun up in all of this by Giuliani
SPEAKER_02: He's a fucking moron You know, he can barely like not wet his pants You know, you're not going to get spun up by Sidney Powell The only person that can really catalyze this Is the person that has the respect That comes with sitting in the seat that's called the presidency of the United States And she's the only one He's the only one We all know this Because if Giuliani was running this rally and said let's go storm the Capitol Nobody would have done it We all know this
SPEAKER_07: Look, yeah What do you think about this woman, David?
SPEAKER_06: Like, think about the psychology of this person for a second The humanity of it You know, I'll say something
SPEAKER_03: I think, man, politics is, isn't the problem It's kind of a manifestation of the problem If you think about how crazy it is I posted a tweet about this the other day because I've been thinking about it a lot I think it's so crazy that you can show people a TV ad or a Facebook ad And get them to change their mind on what to vote Like, people are kind of shown stuff And the bigger problem is this kind of reductionism That's kind of enveloped all of this You know, if you go back 100 years I guarantee you people were having deeper, more civil conversations About differences of opinion and ways to govern And laws to govern us And I think, like, you know, it's so easy to put a 30-second kind of reductionist ad In front of someone Incite their kind of amygdala to respond And change their mind about something or push them in some direction And I think that's the bigger issue with, like, what's been going on Is people are kind of being pushed all the way to one side Or pushed all the way to the other side Through this, you know, this very kind of simple process There is no dialogue to decide what candidate to vote for Dialogue to decide what path to take It's all insidio It's like, lock his ass up, you know, kill them Like, everything has become extremely binary And the gray scale is really the reality And unfortunately, we've kind of really hurt ourselves In this tribalism over objectivism kind of approach To how we talk as a society and how we debate And as a result, people are pushed over the edge And I think this is a manifestation of that broader problem Which I think is probably linked to the internet And short attention spans and all this shit that's going on Well, this is also why I think the GOP has just been completely, you know
SPEAKER_06: But it's not just the GOP Dominant, but what I'm saying, I think it's a good segue into Georgia But you could say the same about AOC
SPEAKER_03: And you could say that AOC is doing the same to the Democratic Party And they're, you know, equally frustrated with this extremist point of view Or Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders And they're capturing the attention Yeah, none of them got the nomination, though, right? And none of them got cabinet positions But they could have, and they were close And it was like, hey, look, give everyone a million dollars Okay, great, like, and tax the rich 90%, great Like, it's easy to say And my point is, by the way, I think the root of a lot of this is People are programmed to be unhappy, right? That's how you instigate people to take action The bottom 10% of Americans make more money And have a better position in life than the top 10% of Kenyans And it's an incredible statistic if you think about it Go to dollarstreet.org or dollarstreet.com And you can actually play around and see what different people live like Around the world Yet in the US, we are told at every strata Whether you're wealthy or not wealthy relative to others in the United States That you should be better off And it is, you know, happiness is the difference between expectation and outcome And everyone's been set an expectation beyond what they currently have And as a result, through programmatic work that is done on people in the United States We are being told, you should be unhappy Oh, and by the way, here's the short-term solution to resolve it And it's driving an incredible amount of behavioral shift And it really threatens democracy, as we saw this week And you guys will remember my big loser for the Political loser for 2020 was the American Democratic Institution And I think we saw that this week Can I On the heels of that, can I ask you guys what you think of this
SPEAKER_02: Basically, Pelosi has told Pence You have to invoke the 25th amendment or they're gonna take up impeachment What do you guys think about that?
SPEAKER_06: I think it's the right thing to do How do you do that? I think there has to be a backstop against us Is it possible Trump could do something crazy? You could, oh here's the thing
SPEAKER_06: And I tweeted at Preet Bharara about this If you are impeached successfully, you can't run again So I think that this is a way to put the nail in the coffin of Trump Even having the ability to run in 2024 Which I think is why the Democrats are on the right side of history on this one That's my personal belief Maybe they sign a non-prosecution agreement with him if he resigns
SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of the final, you know That's what I would like to see
SPEAKER_06: But Jason, why can't you trust voters to make the right decision in 2024?
SPEAKER_07: I, um, do I trust voters?
SPEAKER_06: It's not about trusting the voters It's more about, do I think there should be ramifications for somebody's behavior That's my fear, is that if he keeps getting away with stuff He could do something even more violent or dangerous As Chumant said earlier, it's a miracle that a hundred people were shot dead And this wasn't a firefight I mean, if somebody takes out a gun at any moment during that And people start shooting We could have hundreds of people, Americans, dead Not just the four who died And I think Trump is absolutely capable of doing something in the last 14 days If he did this 15 days out, why wouldn't he do something else 7 days out or 3 days out? He's a maniac I mean, this is insane, deranged, criminal, lunatic behavior It's completely possible that he could do something more dangerous in the last 14 days I know that that sounds crazy But look at what we saw yesterday
SPEAKER_07: I think there is like a white knuckle element to the next two weeks I think we're all kind of white knuckling it to see what's going to happen We have 300 hours to go till Biden is sworn in And I've got to admit, I'm counting down the hours, you know It's too insane, nobody wants to live like this Everybody is feeling that That being said, I just think that I'm more on Freeburg's point of view on this That we have this insane level of partisan warfare in the US It's gone to like a whole other level And Trump has definitely made it worse And the storming of the Capitol is the zenith of it It's the apex But look, the other side has been doing it too And the question is just how we de-escalate this insane partisan warfare Isn't Biden the de-escalation Chamath?
SPEAKER_06: Isn't Biden like being elected? I think it is I think it is It's like we picked the most boring candidate Who has the most milk toast, middle of the road approach Who Lindsey Graham likes And who travel the world with I mean, Lady G loves him To the extent that Biden has a mandate, this is it
SPEAKER_07: I mean, and he talked about it in his victory speech that night Which was quite good It's about bringing people together Now look, I mean, the issue One of the issues is you can't ignore the fact That Democrats for the last four years have waged This insane partisan war against Trump I mean, let's not even go into the merits But you had this two-year Mueller witch hunt You then had this impeachment crusade Which, look, if there was a lot of validity to the impeachment Why wasn't it used as a campaign issue last year? I just think everybody knows Let me ask you a question Everybody knows that was hyper-partisan And my point is that Yeah, look, I mean, I think it's a good thing if Biden can de-escalate things That is, I think, why he won the election Is that he was seen as more of a sane alternative Let me ask you a question, Sax
SPEAKER_06: Do you think it would have been Do you think if Trump had been impeached for the Ukraine Interference and Pence had taken over We would not have seen what we were seeing yesterday And the country would have been further along to healing
SPEAKER_07: So, you know, no I mean, Pence would not have invited or asked All of his supporters to come to the Capitol to oppose The counting of the electors Look, that was a unique Trump thing He could not accept the loss And had to keep pushing and pushing and pushing On this idea that the election was stolen So it would have been a good idea to impeach him No, it wouldn't Because if you had impeached Trump Well, first of all, he was impeached, okay But if you had voted to convict him If you had removed him from office The Senate had voted to convict Over a phone call, okay And look, I'm not defending the phone call I'm not saying the phone call was perfect Okay, I know Trump says it was perfect It was not a perfect phone call But you can't remove a sitting president For that, okay Look, it was unseemly or whatever I think we all know what he was trying to do in that phone call But you can't remove a sitting president over that That was hyper-partisan And so no, the country would be much further apart today If you had done that And so the question now is Well, how do you bring it back together And I think, I understand where Where Trump is coming from I think that Trump deserves Morally, culpably I think he is Some repudiation Some repudiation But I don't believe in locking him up Or prosecuting him That's only going to make things much much worse For which crime?
SPEAKER_05: For this crime We don't even know what else is out there
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I think there's other issues out there Let's talk about Georgia I think we've nailed Trump I mean, unless anybody really feels like continuing to talk about the social- Stacey Abrams is a genius
SPEAKER_02: I mean, my gosh She should be in charge of everything Yeah, can we get her on the vaccine rollout?
SPEAKER_02: It's incredible Stacey Abrams did an incredible job on the Democrats side
SPEAKER_07: Mobilizing turnout But the reason why the Republicans lost Georgia Is frankly Trump I mean, Trump cost them Georgia Two months ago Perdue beat Ossoff in that election He won That's right He won He won And he's beaten him before I think he is I mean, he's not the most wonderful candidate But I think he is a better candidate And he lost because of these antics Over the last two months Culminating in that insane phone call That Trump had with the Georgia Secretary of State Oh my god, we haven't even talked about that Rafflesberger
SPEAKER_06: Right Should he be prosecuted for that? Can't you just find me 11,000 votes?
SPEAKER_07: Sacks? Can't you just find me 11,000 votes? Look, I just think, you know, I don't think-
SPEAKER_06: Which one is more prosecutable? Sending people to the Capitol Or asking them and begging them to find him 11,000 votes Which one is more prosecutable to you, Sacks? Since you're going to be framing stuff No, wait, let's, let's
SPEAKER_02: Wait, Jason, hold on Let's move away from the whole Trump goes to jail for a second I just want to, I think it's important to talk about Georgia Because I think, David, you're going to make a point
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, exactly I mean, look, I think we're getting hung up too much on the legalities And let's just talk about what's right and wrong, you know Which is what we can agree on and let, you know, lawyers and prosecutors figure out the legalities Ramesh Panuru from National View had a great quote about Georgia He said that, Purdue and Loeffler could have survived any two of these three Being unimpressive candidates Georgia shifting purple And Trump being a maniac And unfortunately you had three out of three and that's why they lost If, it was a great, it was a great quote You know, you had the Rafflesberger call You know, can't you just find me the 11,000 votes the day before the election Or two days before the election I mean, that had to push swing voters and undecideds to the Democrats And the other thing is that Purdue and Loeffler weren't able to make the best argument that they had Which is, if you vote for us You end up with split, you prevent the Democrats from having all the power in Washington So unless you want to give all the power in Washington to a single party You need to vote for us That was the best argument for voting for them because there's a lot of people in this country Who believe in splitting their ticket Because they don't trust either party Which is kind of where I'm at But they were unable to make that argument effectively because Trump was still hanging on to the idea That he was going to be president No, I think David, I honestly, I think this comes down to the intelligence of the candidates
SPEAKER_02: Kelly Loeffler's a moron She's an idiot David Purdue's a good old boy He's an idiot They're just stupid This actually speaks to a bigger problem Which is the Republicans could do so much better if they could actually find younger, more vibrant, intelligent people And instead they find these fucking morons I don't know where they find them But, you know, they pulled Kelly Loeffler out of some like backstage Dallas beauty pageant And just kind of like fluffed her up and tried to get her to run She's a moron Loeffler was a mistake
SPEAKER_07: Loeffler was a mistake
SPEAKER_02: Complete fucking idiot
SPEAKER_06: Did you read the story about her with the WNBA? I mean, Georgia is full of so many incredible politicians and they found that idiot
SPEAKER_02: That was a huge mistake
SPEAKER_07: If they just voted, or yeah, I mean the governor made a huge mistake They appointed her to the last two months So I agree that she's a particularly weak candidate But the Republicans only needed one of these two elections And Purdue had beaten Ossoff before I agree with you, he's not necessarily the greatest candidate of all time But he has proved better than Ossoff in the past Including November And the reason why he lost two months later is because what's transpired in the last two months Biden has acted presidential and Trump has done what he's done And that made all the difference And that, by the way, is why you're seeing the Republicans breaking from Trump They were already on their way to breaking with him and then you had this stormy in the Capitol David, what are the implications for Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz?
SPEAKER_02: I think this was a blow to them
SPEAKER_07: Because I think that what they were doing in terms of opposing the electors Everybody knew it was sort of cynical and Theater It was theater, it was performative theater Designed to curry favor with Trump So that he might endorse them in 2024 for the nomination And it was optionistic And the problem is it backfired horribly And people now see it for what it was And so, yeah, I think it's gonna hurt Ultimately, they tried to do something optionistic that they thought would help them politically And I think it's gonna hurt them
SPEAKER_06: But wait, I have to ask you guys Do you guys know the backstory of Loeffler and the Atlantic Dream, the WNBA team? It's tears
SPEAKER_02: Honestly, Jason, I'm gonna get so angry because she is just a complete piece of shit Please don't You can bring it up I just don't think Saxon and Freeburg are aware of this, but I think she's a complete piece of shit But go ahead, tell the story
SPEAKER_06: Basically, she was anti-BLM And she was writing letters to the NBA, WNBA To not allow the players to be vocal about Black Lives Matter After the killing of the murder of George Floyd And so what the team did, if you look at that story Is they backed Warnock They got on the call with him, they refused to say her name And they rallied the support of Warnock Who ultimately beat her and they refused to say her name ever again The players are her own team If you want to see courage
SPEAKER_02: The women that play in the WNBA are some of the most incredible people in the world These are women that have basically stopped their athletic career, stopped fame Stopped all of the attention, in some cases stopped fortunes To work on behalf of criminal justice reform To basically overturn unjust convictions These women are incredible And then to be suppressed, to be able to say what was on their mind Kelly Loeffler is a piece of shit And they basically wore these Vote Warnock t-shirts every day at every game
SPEAKER_06: I mean imagine And now they're, I think, going to be forced Bravo to those women Sue Bird, I think, was the leader of the whole movement Bravo to her Yeah, bravo to her
SPEAKER_06: Alright, moving on from politics I think we have to talk, Friedberg, about the deployment of the vaccine I did a quick poll on Twitter And Twitter and the American people have asked that Friedberg, the Queen of Quinoa Be responsible for the vaccine distribution going forward Really? I'm in, let's do it
SPEAKER_03: I would get that vaccine into everyone's arms in 75 days I mean it would be blocked and loaded You would be such a stonework lock
SPEAKER_02: That would be amazing Yeah, I don't know how that happened So Friedberg, what would you do differently
SPEAKER_06: I would love to do that And maybe you could describe, you know, we were supposed to be at a million a day We're at 350, trending towards 400 We did 1.5 million in 72 hours, according to Fauci, at one point right after the new year So we're kind of like halfway where we need to be
SPEAKER_06: What would you do differently? Because the rollout seems More than 50% are on the shelves still It is a wartime scenario
SPEAKER_03: When war is happening, you don't go home at 5pm and wake up at 9am And clock out for an hour for lunch And you know, you don't, oh, don't run too fast You know, you might trip You don't do any of that We've created incredible disincentives in the system In fact, Cuomo put out a million dollar fine If you get your vaccine out of line I mean, think about the disincentive that creates Now people are more scared about giving the vaccine to the wrong person Than they are incentivized to give the vaccine to the right person And the reality is, this is a group game This isn't an individual game It's not about who gets vaccinated first and you'll live and you'll die We all need to get vaccinated as a group So that we all have immunity so that this virus stops spreading It doesn't matter if you're individually vaccinated It matters if we're all vaccinated Because that's the only way we're all going to get out of the economic slump That is truly damaging this country right now And so the first step is create a military style operation Figure out how many feet on the ground You know, it's all a rate based system, right? How many are you running per day? And then how do you achieve that objective? Over time, you have your target rate per day You would scale it up over 75 days Or whatever your rollout time frame needs to be And you would say, this is how we're going to get there We need this number of people giving shots this many minutes apart And then you go figure out where you're going to give the shots And who's going to give them? Get the vaccines to where they need to get to Take over all the gymnasiums and all the stadiums And all the open sports facilities around the country People can drive up, stand in line Get a friggin' shot And 65 year olds get priority for the first 30 days And then after 30 days, your 65 and over crowd loses their priority And it's open season for who wants to get a shot You stand in line, you get a shot Walk in, you got 3.8 million nurses in the United States You go contract 500,000 of them You give them a huge friggin' one time bonus to come and run this program You run 24 hour shifts in the gymnasiums around the country People come in, they get shots, they get out Takes 3 minutes If you're feeling weird, if you have risk of allergies You go sit in the other room, you wait for 2 hours There's a bunch of roaming nurses keeping an eye on you And you get this thing done, that's it This is not that complicated And we can leverage the National Guard to create the infrastructure To support these lines and get these things done We can go recruit, there are plenty of nurses associations You can go, people can work overnight shifts And get paid triple overtime, get extra bonuses for doing this It's a great way to kind of create an economic stimulus around this We can get this entire country vaccinated in 90 days And the way that Israel's doing it is a great model You know, when they run out of Describe that, yeah But at the end of the day When you take these things out of deep freeze You're at risk of them spoiling at that point Because the mRNA can break And so it needs to be really cold And then you've got to give the vaccine very quickly Otherwise the mRNA can degrade and it's not effective And you have to defrost it in order to give it?
SPEAKER_06: Yes, you defrost it, then it's sitting there
SPEAKER_03: Now you've got to give it within a couple of hours And if you've got extra doses sitting at the end of the day What they're doing in Israel is they're looking outside They grab the pizza guy that's on the bicycle Cruising by, they're like, do you want a shot? Come on in, they give him a shot They grab the next guy You do not need to track everyone that gets a shot You do not need everyone to show their ID to get a shot You do not need to X, Y, and Z All the disincentives that create friction In the system of rolling out the vaccine Need to be completely eliminated There's no qualifying criteria Except maybe being 65 and over for the first 30 days And we've prioritized politics over health and safety We have made it the case that the teachers should get the shot first Because the teachers unions created an uproar in California And said they're not going to go to work unless they So now the teachers are going to get it And the essential workers are going to get it Which are people that are working in stores and warehouses and other stuff And meanwhile the people that can actually die from this 15% likelihood of death if you're over 85 Are not getting it Because they're not technically essential workers So the prioritization where we've tried to create these artificial Politically motivated systems for defining who gets the vaccine and who doesn't Is absolutely killing us And literally killing us 4,000 people died yesterday in the United States And so the system is fucked up The incentives we've And don't bleep that out because that's exactly what it is The disincentives we've created are destroying the rollout The governor is getting involved in creating models of prioritization That are politically motivated are killing us And we should centrally plan this thing War production act Make a shit ton of this stuff Grab it all Get 100 million doses distributed in the gymnasiums around the country Get the nurses in there Get the National Guard to organize the line This should have been federal
SPEAKER_06: I mean that's the key This should have been a federal effort
SPEAKER_03: Central planning is sometimes needed to get shit done We did it with the war production board During World War II We did it with the Manhattan Project There have been countless examples Where we've had to centralize planning For a massive short term event And this is one of those events And this needs to be prioritized and organized centrally And it needs to have the right minded people on this Not kind of people that are political operatives And not people that are working 9 to 5 Well the good news is This is a war And we need to go win the fucking war I mean the good news is
SPEAKER_06: Trump has time He's at Camp David this weekend So I think he can put some attention to it Sax Can I ask a question, Freeberg? Yeah
SPEAKER_07: So, you know What do you think about just using markets to distribute the vaccine? It's a great idea I think, you know, you have to get the incentive
SPEAKER_03: Such that time-based systems are the incentive, right? Because the objective here is to get as many people vaccinated As quickly as possible So take that being your objective And then figure out Look, you guys are going to get $1,000 per person vaccinated In the first 15 days And then you're going to get $500 And then, you know, whatever the transition is And then anyone can sign up to buy doses at a cost So they have skin in the game, right? That's an alternative So let Walgreens and CVS buy 50 million doses And then they're incentivized to get them rolled out As quickly as possible Let them do the work, sure And frankly, if a few people have anaphylactic reactions Across the country That's just the reality In war, you have some casualties This can't be perfect It has to be good enough to win the war Well, by the way, when somebody goes into anaphylactic shock Just to clarify that You get an epi shot
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, you get an epi shot It's not fatal if you have an epi pen That's right And so, you know, when you get a, you know, a vaccine
SPEAKER_03: If you get one of these vaccines 40% to 60% of people are going to have some sort of reaction You're going to have a fever Because these produce a ton of proteins in your body Relative to what you would normally, you know, kind of experience With a dead vaccine There's a lot of vaccines in your body There's a lot of protein in your body Your body reacts to get rid of that protein You produce all these antibodies very quickly So you end up having a fever You end up having some allergic response Or headaches or flushing or whatever So everyone's going to have A lot of people are going to have some sort of thing So one of the concerns is They want to have nurses available And they want to have this feel Like a controlled medical environment But again, the reality is We have to sack it up We have to accept the fact That people are going to be able to get rid of that And the fact that people are going to be uncomfortable It is not going to be an easy, simple vaccine Like you get the flu vaccine at Walgreens It's going to be a little bit uncomfortable You may not have five or six nurses surrounding you And getting all the TLC that Americans have become used to getting Every time we brush our freaking teeth And we're going to have some people go into anaphylactic shock And they're going to get EpiPen shots And we shouldn't be charging $1500 for EpiPen shots Is another important point But I think the market-based model could work as well Hasn't Israel done this right?
SPEAKER_07: I mean, Israel, they moved the old people to the front of the line But anybody can get in line If they've got extra doses that day They just keep sticking people They keep jabbing people All day long Until they run out All day long until they run out That's right
SPEAKER_03: And they're probably at 20% of the population by now Yeah, so I'm sure we all agree with everything you're saying
SPEAKER_07: It speaks to an enormous amount of political incompetence
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's really, really just unbelievable Why we just don't have smarter people in charge of these things
SPEAKER_03: But, Sax, I just want to ask you Because there is the conservative argument on this Which is, you know, states The federal government shouldn't be doing everything And states need to kind of manage their populace And manage what goes on locally You know, what is the conservative I'm not asking you this And I'm not attacking you I'm just asking, like, what is the conservative argument For not doing central planning And central organization around vaccine distribution And delegating it to states And, you know, are there Do you think that there's a case against You know, for that That's pretty strong within the Republican Party And within kind of conservative ranks No, I think if there's a conservative point of view on this
SPEAKER_07: It would just be that let markets distribute the vaccine They'll do a much better job I don't, you know, I think whether it's federal or state The question is who's more incompetent And I'm not really sure I mean, I think the problem right now Is that when you make vaccine distribution Fundamentally political Then the debate becomes about Exactly who's What is your position going to be exactly in line As opposed to just running the most number of people Through the process as quickly as possible We're getting ourselves so twisted up in knots Over making sure that the exact right person is in line That we're having, you know, vaccine go to waste And just to put that in context
SPEAKER_06: 21 million plus doses have been distributed in the United States 5.9 have made their way into people's arms In other words, there are 15 million Over 75% of doses have not gone in people's arms And in California We have distributed 5.85% of the population's vaccines But we've only put 1.3 in people's arms So we are literally 4x where we should be We're at 25% of where we should be It is absolutely unbelievable that this is happening And meanwhile If the government stopped trying to do anything
SPEAKER_07: Except, you know, look, it did Operation Warp Speed That actually did help get vaccines done faster But if you just That was just money to your point, Sax
SPEAKER_03: All they did was create a market Where they basically pre-bought all the vaccines Whether or not they were going to work And then funded the market to go and produce them early That's all that it was So to your point That Operation Warp Speed for everyone thinking It's a massive centrally controlled effort It was a market-based incentive It wasn't the Manhattan Project is what you're saying
SPEAKER_06: It was a check
SPEAKER_03: They put up a couple billion dollars And said to all these pharma companies Go produce the vaccine And if it works, we'll buy them If it doesn't work, throw them away But let's get production going And that was it
SPEAKER_02: Can I use this as a segue? I mean, what we're seeing is sort of We have a bunch of elected officials We give them an enormous amount of responsibility They also get this implied power And then you see sometimes in these acute moments They're totally derelict Then, I just want to move off of vaccines for a second Then you get an elected official Who is not acutely incompetent But it seems broadly, grossly, and consistently incompetent And I want to talk about Chesa Boudin And I want to use Sax's article Which, to be very honest, David Was probably one of the most incredibly well-written things Well done You have ever created I don't know, Jason Do we have show notes? Can we put it in?
SPEAKER_06: We'll put it in the show notes, yeah We'll put a link in the show notes It is so fucking good what you wrote
SPEAKER_02: If everybody, folks who are listening Have a chance to read David's Killer DA The Killer DA But it basically starts with a profile Of this young woman Seemed like an incredible woman That was killed by this drunk driver But anyways, David, do you want to talk about it? Yeah, I mean, so for the last
SPEAKER_07: Let's say for the last couple of months I've been following the San Francisco A couple of San Francisco Police Department accounts on Twitter And I was noticing these extraordinary tweets Which were getting retweeted a lot About how they kept arresting And then having to let go of all these criminals Who were committing burglaries and other crimes And you could see the frustration Of the police department Boiling off these tweets And basically they were subtweeting This new district attorney that we've had Jason Boudin Who was elected, he's been in office about a year He was elected at the end of 2019 And so I started doing a little bit of research And then we had this horrible New Year's Eve killing Of this wonderful young woman Hannah Abe Who came to America from Japan for college And stayed here for work She was just 27 years old She gets killed by a criminal Someone who was released, who was paroled By Jason Boudin Back in April He had been in jail for armed robbery Jason released him As part of a plea bargain And then he was arrested five more times For stealing cars and other crimes Most recently, two weeks ago And the DA refused to press charges And that's the reason he was out On New Year's Eve He stole a car And then there was this hit and run Where he killed Hannah and another woman And so I had already been noticing this issue And so I started doing some research And I have a research assistant helping me with this It's the only way I could put something like this together And we went pretty deep And we realized that the death of Hannah Wasn't just an accident or an act of negligence By this DA It was part of an overall philosophy Of decarceration that he has His background is very interesting He was a child of parents who were in the weather underground Who, when he was just a baby Committed armed robbery And were part of the murder David, say the words
SPEAKER_02: They were domestic terrorists Yeah, that's right
SPEAKER_07: They were domestic terrorists They participated in an armed robbery against a Brinks truck And these were domestic terrorists that were competent
SPEAKER_06: When compared to what we saw yesterday in the Capitol Like these are highly capable domestic terrorists To be clear I don't know how capable they were
SPEAKER_07: Their robbery resulted in the death of two police officers And a Brinks guard And they were put in prison His mother spent 20 years in prison She's now released His father is still in prison For almost 40 years And he's described in interviews How his earliest memories are visiting his parents in prison And how this shaped his entire political outlook And he became a public defender Which I think was a pretty good place for him I think if I were an indigent criminal defendant I would want someone like Chase Abudian on my side But the problem is he ran for district attorney And he simply doesn't believe in prosecuting huge numbers of crimes You know, certainly property crimes Burglary, shoplifting, vandalism And those crimes have absolutely spiked in the city You know, 45% increase in burglaries in one year 35% increase in stolen cars 30% increase in homicides Crimes are through the roof Because he simply doesn't believe in putting people in jail
SPEAKER_03: Well, can I just say this? Sorry, let me just point out There's a little bit of a history to this notion That DAs should change the criminal justice system There's a TED Talk by a guy named Adam Foss I don't know if you've seen it Or if any of you guys have watched it I was at the TED conference the year that he spoke But this guy basically thought, you know, he made the case That it is the role and the opportunity For the district attorney, for the prosecutor To change the criminal justice system From the prosecutorial side That you can, you know, kind of demotivate jail And other kind of, you know, mechanisms of punishment And push for a rehabilitation program as an alternative And that the district attorneys can take this role on Of changing the criminal justice system And it created a little bit of a mini movement And there was a lot of attention and follow-up After he gave his TED Talk And I think San Francisco, in large part, Picked up on the momentum coming out of this And other similar sort of stories About the DA can really change the criminal justice system And Chesa Boudin really kind of capitalized on it In principle, a lot of people are motivated from a good place When they elected him Which is, it is unfortunate A lot of people get trapped in a life of crime And the fact that they're in and out of prison Is a result of the fact that they're put into the criminal justice system In the first place And parole is really harsh on people And all these other reasons why People's lives are ruined for simple mistakes And if they get an opportunity in life They can fix themselves And they can come out in a better place So there is a bit of an origin story It's not just like San Francisco said Let's get an anarchist to be our DA And destroy the world And kill us all I think it came from a good and true place Where this all kind of originated But obviously the experiment has gone severely awry in San Francisco And his particular methods And his particular actions Have certainly caused far more harm Than anyone has seen any good As Zach Eligway pointed out They've started a recall effort for him too
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think the danger is Not that you have an enlightened political philosophy I think that's actually quite great Than that we can experiment I think the danger is both on the left and on the right Where people cathartically deal with childhood trauma Through their job And I don't know what Chesa Boudin has gone through And I feel very bad that he had an incredibly hard life Or complicated or maybe not I don't even know But I wouldn't want to know that he's trying to deal with his own experiences Through his job Because that's not his job Meaning, you know, you don't want an activist DA I think you want a DA that's enforcing the laws And what you do want is you want to elect politicians Who change the laws to reflect our values
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that would be a better through line I think And really, I mean, if you look at what's happening in San Francisco I think we've conflated income inequality Which people in San Francisco are very tuned into With essentially junkies People who are addicted to incredibly hardcore drugs That are very hard to get off of And we've had more debts from overdoses of fentanyl Than we've had from COVID By a magnitude of four or five I mean, it is bedlam on the streets of San Francisco And if you don't enforce a basic rule of law What happens is the price of drugs gets cheaper, more available More people try them, more people get addicted And then more people come from other places Because they know you have the lowest price on drugs And the price of drugs is inversely correlated with Prosecution of drug crimes So, prosecution of crimes This is why San Francisco is spiraling And most drugs are purchased from criminal funds
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, criminal activity goes up to fund the drug purchasing So that's the vicious cycle that's driving San Francisco
SPEAKER_06: And there's a recall going on And then in related news Gavin Newsom is now up to a million signatures in his recall Which I think is two-thirds of the way there
SPEAKER_02: Yeah They have until mid or late February They're gonna get the votes And I think the question, you know Friedberg and I talked about this just on a phone call He and I caught up a couple days ago I think it is time, guys, for us to find An incredibly centrist, thoughtful candidate And put them into the recall race Against Newsom Friedberg had the best idea, which was Kim Kardashian Which I think is incredible because she is very smart She's very likable She's got enormous distribution She's about to become a lawyer That'll be the best platform for Kardashian to run for president Look, it's pretty clear
SPEAKER_03: Recognition influenced fame is what gets people elected Not the best policy and not the greatest experience From Jesse Ventura to Arnold Schwarzenegger to Donald Trump Ronald Reagan I mean, these are celebrities who I would argue
SPEAKER_03: In the case of Jesse Ventura, Arnold Schwarzenegger And maybe even Donald Trump as well Their celebrity was kind of, you know It had hit its media-driven apex And this was a second act And, you know, perhaps someone like that is a great fit here Kim Kardashian really fits the bill But, you know, that's just a shot in the dark But I do think someone like that needs to go up Because if you put politician up again It's another one of these eye-rolling events And for the populace to kind of really find appeal It has to be a recognized person You know, broadly recognized and liked person
SPEAKER_05: Yeah I want to end
SPEAKER_06: Jason, it could be you Governorjason.com? Governor Jason I'm not ready to run for political office, I'm 50 And when I'm 60, I would consider it, actually But not right now
SPEAKER_02: I want to work I got to hop, too I think we all got to hop But I was going to say one thing Which is, the beginning of today's podcast Was probably the punchiest it's ever been And I think it just speaks to the fact that there was so The bar was so high For Trump to have done something that would have actually Gotten us to actually argue and interrupt each other You know, because we've been so incredibly, like, loving And protective of each other For four years on this topic But it literally took an armed insurrection
SPEAKER_02: For us to finally They even cracked the besties
SPEAKER_06: Well, I mean, I think it's good for people to see Sachs, maybe an I, or Chamath and Sachs, or whoever Disagree on some of these cases Or Freeburg, you know, doesn't believe in prosecuting Trump I think we actually had a split ticket there Where Sachs and Freeburg felt like we shouldn't prosecute Trump And Chamath and I were in the prosecute Trump one
SPEAKER_06: But I think we're all struggling with these issues All Americans are struggling with these issues Of how do you deal with a black swan event I think that's what's so unique about Trump Is, and I think David you can speak to this, is I don't think the system was designed For his level of crazy, right? Like, our system is based on norms And traditions, and trust Just like venture investing is And we see this in venture investing Some founder goes off the, you know, jumps the fence And all of a sudden, you know
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I mean, we still I would say our system performed pretty well In terms of being stress tested And, well look, we still got two more weeks You know, I think we're all kind of We're all kind of white knuckling it right now Yeah, hoping nothing else happens But look, if Trump's goal was a coup You know, I think it's a strong word But if it, like, it totally failed I mean, he didn't come close to succeeding in a coup The opposite, in fact The opposite, he, again, we talked about how I think his, he destroyed his popularity Over the last two months
SPEAKER_02: He impacted his earnings by negative two billion dollars Yeah, so, but, but, but, you know
SPEAKER_07: But, but to this point about us agreeing or disagreeing You know, I saw a whole bunch of fans of the pod Like, at mentioning me saying I wonder what Sachs is going to say about this I don't know why Like, yeah, and I'm kind of like Like, what do they think I'm going to say Like, they think I'm going to be supportive of this I mean, you know, like I think somehow you, Jason, you've programmed the viewers That I'm somehow like the Trump guy You know, because you're always trolling me as the Trump supporter I mean, I would believe that Russia was a hoax
SPEAKER_06: And that black people would have been treated the same Climbing up those steps We all know that's not true Well, we're rehabbing Some of these are self-inflicted wounds of your own Take some ownership there Boys, boys, I gotta hop
SPEAKER_02: I love you very much Happy New Year Happy New Year, Bess I will say one thing
SPEAKER_03: Before we meet next time Yes I guarantee you some highly unexpected and highly impactful thing will occur Please, no Can we get back to talking about SPACs or The Bachelor
SPEAKER_05: I can ask Oh my god, we didn't even talk about my SPAC today
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah Yeah, go ahead, give it a plug Go ahead
SPEAKER_06: I mean, just explain to me what you mean He doesn't need a plug, it doubled today
SPEAKER_03: It's insane All right, well, explain what happened
SPEAKER_02: IPOE IPOE is merging with SoFi It's an incredible company led by an incredible CEO, Anthony Noto You can read a little one pager on my website But anyways, guys, more importantly, to all the listeners out there Happy New Year to all of you guys Let's make 2021 kick ass Yep I love you guys I miss you Miss you See you guys soon
SPEAKER_06: Bye Play poker soon Oh, look, there's somebody Yeah, I got interrupted I gotta go All right, we'll see you all I got interrupted Next time
SPEAKER_01: Take us out, young Spielberg Take us out, young Spielberg Take us out, young Spielberg
SPEAKER_06: Take us out, young Spielberg
SPEAKER_01: Take us out, young Spielberg
SPEAKER_02: Take us out, young Spielberg Take us out, young Spielberg Take us out, young Spielberg
