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SPEAKER_08: Before you came into the world of radio, what were you doing? I was working on wacky daytime talk shows, late night talk shows, YouTube talk shows, a bunch of just random things.
SPEAKER_09: My colleague at 99% Invisible, Vivian Le.
SPEAKER_08: On the 2013 reboot of the Arsenio Hall show, I was a production assistant and my current fiance was also a production assistant.
SPEAKER_09: And we've been together for five years. So last year Vivian had to plan her wedding, which was kind of like her old job as a production assistant.
SPEAKER_08: Except that in this production, she's the star. And the wardrobe department.
SPEAKER_09: I've been looking at wedding dresses since like me and Cody got together. Five years ago. Yeah, like I've always been thinking about like what kind of dress do I want. So I think that's probably why it's so hard for me to decide now because it's something that I've been thinking about for so long. It's a really big decision. So I'm not really looking forward to like picking out the dress because it seems so stressful. I mean on the surface it's just a dress. A dress that is white.
SPEAKER_08: But you like buying clothes normally, no? I like, oh this is really bad. I am a, I'm like a bargain shopper. I am a maxanista.
SPEAKER_09: Like TJ Maxx? Why is that bad? Because I buy a lot of clothes that you would not think highly of after doing articles of interest that are very cheap. I could like, you know, buy a ton of them and like, oh whatever. It's just like five dollars for this shirt. So I'm that kind of shopper. I think of like, what kind of value can I get for this? And I feel like a wedding dress is never equated with value. Most people I think spend more than a thousand dollars on their wedding dress. And that sounds insane to me. I would rather not spend more than like eight hundred dollars on a wedding dress. Eight hundred dollars to me is a lot. But it feels like- That is a lot. It's a lot of money.
SPEAKER_08: So when are you going wedding dress shopping?
SPEAKER_09: Oh, I'm putting it off so much. And I don't want to do it. And it has nothing to do with me not wanting to get married. It's that it's so much pressure to spend so much money on this one item of clothing that I know I'm only going to use once.
SPEAKER_08: Articles of Interest. A show about what we wear. Season 2.
SPEAKER_07: People don't realize it's fantasy. There's always this thing that you have to work extra hard to get.
SPEAKER_02: Mmm.
SPEAKER_04: Isn't that so good? No one dresses like a king anymore. How do you make money? That's how I make money, love.
SPEAKER_06: There are lots of things that we take for granted that would once have been considered luxuries. A wedding should be pretty simple and straightforward.
SPEAKER_08: It's just about you and the person you're marrying and the ones you love and it should just be that. At least, this is Vivian's fantasy.
SPEAKER_09: I don't want to spend so much time getting ready for my wedding. I just kind of want it to be a nice dinner with my friends and family. We want like a five-minute ceremony so people don't have to sit through reasons why we love each other. Because, whatever.
SPEAKER_04: You can understand why maybe lots of couples would at least be tempted to escape from that burden.
SPEAKER_08: Dr. Benjamin Carney is a professor of social psychology at UCLA and the co-director of their marriage lab. He has talked to a lot of couples. Almost every couple I've ever talked to has said in planning their wedding,
SPEAKER_04: we strongly consider chucking it all and eloping. Most couples don't do it. Most couples have their wedding. And some couples do. And they elope. That has some benefits. You save the expense, you save the money and you can spend it on yourselves. You don't have to worry about your families interacting. I would say it also has some costs. Because what you don't get is the public display of couplehood. And that is what a public wedding is all about.
SPEAKER_08: Letting other people invest in your partnership.
SPEAKER_04: A wedding does something to the couple. It also does something to the guests. If I attend a wedding, I was there at the institutional beginning of your relationship and that means I'm kind of responsible for you. That's a heavy thing. It's not just a party.
SPEAKER_08: And that pressure quickly changed all of Vivian's wedding plans, which had started simply enough.
SPEAKER_09: So I'm getting married in Italy in the summer.
SPEAKER_08: This was last summer, by the way. And it was just supposed to be a small destination wedding. Family only. But two Americans can't legally get married in another country. So Vivian decided on a courthouse wedding in LA and invited her friends. But then her fiancé's family on the East Coast got wind of that. Cody's family was like, OK, we'll throw you a party.
SPEAKER_09: And we're like, OK, great. Yeah. So we checked back in with them. There's 150 people coming. And they rented out this beautiful hall with a view of Manhattan in the background. So now we're having three weddings, yes.
SPEAKER_08: Three different weddings with three completely different locations. And I know a few couples who have done this, who had a handful of ceremonies to accommodate everyone they love. And of course, this affects the dress. Because you will wear different outfits to a courthouse or a church or a beach or Disney World. It depends on the weather. It depends on how big the space is or how formal or informal it is. And this dizzying array of options is a byproduct of a wealthy post-industrial civilization. For the lion's share of history, brides just got married in whatever they had that was nice and clean. They might have one fancy dress for their wedding, and then they might wear that same dress again for all the other weddings they attended as a guest. And this dress often wasn't white.
SPEAKER_10: A very deep purple velvet, and it's very richly embellished with gold metal thread embroidery. Curator Heidi Rabbins showed me a purple velvet caftan covered in gold embroidery depicting flowers and trees.
SPEAKER_08: It was a wedding dress from the 19th century Ottoman Empire. This garment is called a bindali. And this is a garment that was very typical for a Turkish and Ottoman Turkish Jewish woman.
SPEAKER_10: It was considered part of her dowry. So when she would get married, this was a very valuable piece of clothing that she wore at the wedding, but also at the ceremonies leading up to the wedding, and then also for any very important parts of her life thereafter.
SPEAKER_08: Imagine, you'd be getting married in your bindali, surrounded by all your friends in their bindalis that they were married in. It must have been quite powerful. It would be like being accepted into a coven, or like a roving ceremony for an academic or a judge. Yeah, I think that's about welcoming someone into a community.
SPEAKER_10: Heidi is the senior curator at the Contemporary Jewish Museum in San Francisco.
SPEAKER_08: Last year, they hosted a show called Veiled Meanings, which displayed some wedding dresses from across the Jewish diaspora, which is to say, from across the world.
SPEAKER_10: Primarily from the Middle East, North Africa, and Central Asia. And a lot of these wedding clothes from this huge cross-section of the globe were worn multiple times, or at least twice.
SPEAKER_08: This garment was actually a burial shroud.
SPEAKER_10: Heidi showed me this caftan-like tunic made of linen.
SPEAKER_08: And the burial shroud would be worn during the wedding, for both men and women.
SPEAKER_10: And it was a way of reminding people at this very important moment in their lives of their mortality. So, on the two most significant days of your adult existence, you'd be wearing the same thing.
SPEAKER_08: This was common in several different parts of the world, in the Jewish faith in particular.
SPEAKER_10: Of course, now each wedding dress is a decidedly one-time thing.
SPEAKER_08: And it's not a community dress. The bride wears white, and usually she's the only one wearing white. It is all about her one dress on this one day. And sure enough, the exhibit at the Contemporary Jewish Museum, like a lot of fashion runway shows, and like this podcast series, ends with a big white wedding dress as a finale. To reflect on this trend of wedding dresses being white.
SPEAKER_10: Note how Heidi called it a trend.
SPEAKER_08: Yes, white has been a marker of maidenhood and virginity for centuries. But the white wedding dress trend began when Queen Victoria married Prince Albert in 1840. She wore white. And 14 years later, in 1854, Queen Victoria and Prince Albert staged a reenactment of their wedding so they could be photographed. Images of Queen Victoria's white dress circulated throughout the colonies in a way few images could. Her empire extended very long and very wide, and so the trend of wedding dresses beginning to be white, starting with her,
SPEAKER_10: really pervaded all over the world following that moment. It's a simple origin story, and simultaneously a massive and complicated one.
SPEAKER_08: Through imperialism, a look became a trend and became a tradition. Like it has to be white, or it doesn't have to be white.
SPEAKER_09: Vivian didn't particularly care about the color of her dress.
SPEAKER_08: I'm okay with it not being white, but I feel like it's going to raise some eyebrows from my older generations, my in-laws.
SPEAKER_09: I think when they see their kids getting married, they want to see the white gown and they want to share that moment. Because as much as people will say it's the bride's day, the day also belongs to everyone in the bride's life.
SPEAKER_08: And there's only one dress. It has to represent tradition, but also be something unique and totally you. I always say, what do you like in your closet now?
SPEAKER_11: Elizabeth Dye is a wedding dress designer.
SPEAKER_08: She says most of her clients start out thinking they have no idea what they want in a wedding dress. But she says they can just look at what they already wear.
SPEAKER_11: What shape is it? What does it feel like? Just start with your relationship with clothing now. This is not a NASA space suit. This is not a highly technical item of apparel. You know how to do this. You may think you don't, but you know how. You have bought clothes. You've dressed yourself for years. But how can that translate to a wedding dress? How could I be like... Avery, you're wearing a v-neck. This top looks like it might be vintage, is it? Yes. Okay, so think about that. Is that a neckline that you like? Do you like a loud print? Do you like the 60s? Do you like... how do you like to feel? Do you like to wear a sleeve? Do you feel more comfortable in a sleeve? All of those things. I mean, clothing boils down to silhouette, textile, details. That's pretty much it. So, like, shape, fabric, bits and pieces. So just think about what you gravitate towards in terms of shape, fabric, and bits and pieces.
SPEAKER_08: So sure, in some ways a wedding dress can be like other clothes you already have. But technically speaking, a wedding dress is like nothing else we have in our closets. I know I've never had anything tailored to my body.
SPEAKER_11: The vast majority of us now wear clothes with lycra in them and knits, and so things don't have to fit. They just have to stretch. So most of us are just not accustomed to wearing something that fits close to the body, like that is touching us, and that doesn't stretch.
SPEAKER_08: A wedding dress is a throwback to how clothing used to feel. It really brings up all of the traditional draping techniques and the internal corset
SPEAKER_11: and sort of the fundamentals of couture design come into play in wedding dresses in a way that they don't with most other clothing.
SPEAKER_08: In a lot of ways, the typical wedding is a trip back to the times of Queen Victoria, overtly, if you're wearing white, but also in the very process of learning about this antiquated kind of clothing. I mean, having something called a gown rather than a dress, for one, I mean, you know, it's your one and only gown,
SPEAKER_06: unless you get married again and then you get another gown. Most of us are not gown wearing very often.
SPEAKER_08: As Rebecca Mead wrote in her book, One Perfect Day, the process of wedding planning has become an Eliza Doolittle-like education.
SPEAKER_06: I went to these kind of wedding planning seminars where you would have experts instructing the brides-to-be on make sure you practice walking backwards in your dress because if you don't, you're going to trip over the train and fall over and break your neck. And I mean, these are literally the things that were taught to Victorian maidens in finishing schools before they found their husbands. And this sort of education goes beyond the dress, into the different kinds of cutlery and flower arrangements
SPEAKER_08: and varieties of buttercream and fondant, learning correct posture and how to walk. There's something incredibly retro, really, isn't there?
SPEAKER_06: And that's the whole point. We look back in time for reassurance,
SPEAKER_08: to understand that hundreds of thousands of people before us did it just this way. Tradition is like a good luck charm. It's a huge thing to get married. I mean, it's very understandable that we want our personal choices to feel like they have some cultural value that extends beyond us.
SPEAKER_06: And the challenge of a wedding, from the dress to the menu, everything,
SPEAKER_08: it's about finding that balance between tradition and individuality. So not only are you navigating your desires with the desires of everyone around you, you are also considering the desires of everyone who came before you. We want to be individual. At the same time, we don't want to be out there on our own.
SPEAKER_08: And this balancing act, Rebecca Mead says, has its own significance. Only a few generations ago, getting married was a massive, arguably traumatic life change. In one day, you would go from being a kid living in your parents' house to becoming a spouse of someone who you maybe didn't know that well. And now, when a lot of couples already live together and know all there is to know about each other, we replicate that change, that major feeling of transition, in the act of planning the wedding. The wedding process substitutes for the shock that once you would have had, you know, going from being a single person to being a married person.
SPEAKER_06: And I think it's, in a way, it becomes a kind of useful thing to go through because you feel like it really, you know, there is something different happening to you. You have gone through the process of planning this thing.
SPEAKER_08: You've learned about floral arrangements and venue rentals. You've gone through low-stakes simulations of trials and tribulations. And in this way, the ordeal of finding a wedding gown is particularly symbolic.
SPEAKER_06: You know, there's so much hope and promise that's caught up in the buying of the dress. I mean, the gown has a totemic quality, doesn't it? You know, you fall in love with the dress as a way of falling in love with your spouse or replicating that experience of falling in love. And this is the one, you know, you've found the one, just like you found the one to marry.
SPEAKER_08: I was so ready to follow my colleague Vivian to a local dress salon to watch that process unfold, where she would try on gown after gown, dancing and shimmying and every look, while I sat on the couch giving my thumbs up or thumbs down, until Vivian comes out of the dressing room with an ethereal glow on her face and everything seems to slow down. We don't have to say a word. We just know she's found the right one. The sales attendants clasp their hands over their mouths and suddenly I'm crying and Vivian is crying. We're all crying. And in this moment, we all truly understand the gravity of what Vivian is about to do. And we burst out in applause. But I don't have this moment on tape. It didn't happen. No, because I bought a dress literally like probably two days after we talked.
SPEAKER_08: Inspired by our interview?
SPEAKER_09: Um, a little bit. Like I think after we talked, I kind of wanted to get it done. So I went online. I just googled around. Vivian showed me a picture of a long, white, off-the-shoulder dress. Very sleek. No lace or embellishment at all.
SPEAKER_08: It's not poofy at all. It's just kind of a sleek material.
SPEAKER_09: How much was your dress? If I can ask. Yeah, no, you can tell. I'll tell you. It was $100. No! Yeah. What? It was $100. Is it nice? It's nice. It's not see-through. It might catch on fire in the sunlight. I haven't tried it on in sunlight yet. But I like it. And in a weird way, Viv is following Elizabeth's advice.
SPEAKER_08: She picked out a wedding dress the same way she picks out the other clothes in her wardrobe. She found a bargain. Max and Easton, me wins again.
SPEAKER_09: And it's very much in Vivian's minimal, sleek style.
SPEAKER_08: But it's also clearly a wedding dress. It's white, and it's not something Viv could just wear a second time without significant alterations. I think this is definitely the kind of cut and fit that if I wanted to dye it and wear it to something else, I totally could do that.
SPEAKER_09: It turns out, this is a common fantasy about wedding dresses.
SPEAKER_08: I get asked quite often, could I just shorten this dress later if I want to wear it again, or could I dye it?
SPEAKER_11: Elizabeth Dye, the wedding dress designer.
SPEAKER_08: My last name is Dye. So if you want to dye a wedding dress and you Google Dye wedding dress, I come right up.
SPEAKER_11: And the answer to the question of should you dye your wedding dress is no.
SPEAKER_08: Don't dye your wedding dress. The chances of you ruining it are like 95%.
SPEAKER_11: Even if you send it out to get it dyed professionally, it's tough.
SPEAKER_08: Because most garments are made of more than one textile, and they all take dyes differently, and often it comes out unevenly. Dye can also shrink garments. Just generally, it's a rough thing to put your dress through. I'm glad you told me that now.
SPEAKER_09: Before I threw it in a bucket with some food coloring. Oh yeah, no? I have done that before with shorts. It was a pair of jorts that I turned into green jorts for Anime Expo because I was cosplaying. Who are you?
SPEAKER_09: I've got a lot of skeletons in my closet.
SPEAKER_08: So if you can't dye and re-wear your dress, lots of brides are opting to do something unprecedented in the long history of wedding dresses. They will take this gown that they spent countless hours fretting over and toss it. So I've been making wedding dresses for a little over 15 years, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_11: It's literally a new generation getting married now. There's now sort of a new generation who grew up with fast fashion and just a really different relationship with clothes. There's much more of a, I just want this look killer on Instagram, and then I'll peace out. There's actually a whole trend of theatrically destroying the dress after the wedding.
SPEAKER_08: Like the bride will jump in the ocean in the dress, or get it covered in sand, or set it on fire in order to take pictures of it. Trash the dress.
SPEAKER_11: Is that what the trend is called? Yes. I would say that the trash the dress thing is in keeping with sort of this new idea of just like pure moment. And then if you want to extend the moment, extend the moment by just destroying the thing and making sure to get like incredible photos of that. And then you're done.
SPEAKER_08: There's something kind of poetic about finding beauty in this destruction. Trash the dress is kind of like an anti-ceremony in some ways. But, I don't know, maybe instead of submerging it in an ocean, or setting it on fire, or attempting to dye it green, maybe the dress itself can function like a photograph. Maybe it's worth keeping a wedding dress in your closet to remind you of that one day that you worked so hard for. I guess I could give it away, but it has some sentimental value to me.
SPEAKER_07: Alison Chernow has held onto her wedding dress for 30 years.
SPEAKER_08: I don't have much else left over from the wedding, other than the album and husband.
SPEAKER_08: Alison is my mom. She has the album full of photos, the videos, the wedding ring, and what's more, me and my sister. There's a lot of evidence that she got married to my dad. But to her the dress is different somehow. So I can look at this, I can look at, even looking at the photos, I sort of start thinking about the friends or the people who've died since my wedding, things like that.
SPEAKER_07: But this is the only object that really makes me think about the actual event and the ceremony. I can then remember how I felt in the dress and how I felt that day. I did feel really beautiful. I felt like that was my day and people stood up when I walked down the aisle in that dress. And you felt very special. It was a moment.
SPEAKER_08: I'm kind of in awe of people who decide to get married. Becoming legally bound to someone else seems so recklessly optimistic it's almost rebellious. And not just because there's a 40% chance it won't work out. Through the bubonic plague and the great depression and the coronavirus, people have found ways to get married. To have whatever version of a wedding they can. For richer or for poorer. In sickness and in health. Weddings are easy to lampoon. I don't need to go through the reasons why. But at the heart of this cliché is something vulnerable. And at the heart of all this luxury is something necessary. It's about having something to reach for. Having something to feel excited about.
SPEAKER_09: It actually is a special day. I was kind of avoiding coming in terms with that it's a special day that people want to be happy for you. The wedding dress became an afterthought after having experienced being around family and getting to live these three very distinct weddings. Vivian had her weddings. The Italian getaway with the sleek off the shoulder dress.
SPEAKER_08: And it was perfect. The courthouse in Los Angeles. I got like a 40 buck dress so that was fine.
SPEAKER_09: And the big family gathering in New York.
SPEAKER_08: Thin strapped floor length lacy and I've seen a million girls with the same exact wedding dress and it didn't bother me.
SPEAKER_09: And then suddenly all that energy and anxiety that went into the dresses went away.
SPEAKER_08: It was like Cinderella's carriage turning back into a pumpkin. The dresses are just dresses. I could let it go. I feel like.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah? Yeah I think so. I don't know. I think we keep too much stuff. You know? Like I don't want to end up hoarding all these clothes. Really? You'd be okay with not having any? I haven't felt the need to take out the wedding dresses and like look at them and like feel them again or put them on again.
SPEAKER_09: Also it just happened. It did just happen. It could change. Ten years from now I might want to have one. Or even 30 years from now.
SPEAKER_08: I don't even know if it would fit. It's sort of funny to try on.
SPEAKER_07: You want to try it on?
SPEAKER_05: Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08: Because clothes are records of the bodies we've lived in. We are like snakes who shed our skins and acquire new ones as we age. Oh I remember this. The waist is so narrow.
SPEAKER_07: But sometimes it's nice in the churn of our clothes to let something last.
SPEAKER_08: I can't get into it.
SPEAKER_05: No.
SPEAKER_08: Because the way you change and grow might be unexpected. It's because your shoulders are broad. My shoulders got big. I got buff. But in this case. Can I try? Yeah. When I tried on my mom's wedding dress. I don't think it'll button. And couldn't get it off. I shouldn't have done this. I'm sorry. I had to rip the dress she'd been saving for three decades. Just go for it.
SPEAKER_07: But the bright side of this was that with a newly ripped open seam.
SPEAKER_08: Just try it again. My mom's wedding dress could actually fit her again. Oh hey. Aha. See. I'm glad I kept it. She hadn't worn it in years. And there, with her two grown up daughters watching. Wait where's dad? In a dress that wasn't quite her size or her style anymore. She walked through her home.
SPEAKER_08: Check it out. And all eyes were on her. Looking gorgeous.
SPEAKER_08: Oh my God. Again.
SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_05: The pocket. The piece of paper. Words from yesterday. There's a portrait. Painted on the things we love. We love.
SPEAKER_08: The raincoat with a hidden story. Wrinkled on display. A pattern like an ancient message. A language stolen away. There's a picture printed on the things we love. The pocket. The piece of paper. Words from yesterday. There's a portrait. Painted on the things we love. Articles of Interest was written and performed by Avery Truffleman. Edited by Chris Berube with additional edits by Emmett Fitzgerald and Joe Rosenberg. Scored by Ray Royal and Sean Real with additional music by Jason Ja. Fact checked by Tom Colligan with additional fact checking by Graham Haysha. Mix and tech production by Sharif Yusef with additional mixing by Catherine Ray Mondo. Our opening and closing songs are by the mighty Sasami. Her self-titled album is so beautiful and she has a single out called Mess. Check her out. Insights, support and edits from the whole 99PI team including Vivian Leigh, Sean Real, Abby Madon, Kirk Colstead, Delaney Hall and Katie Mingle. And Roman Mars is the best man of this whole series.
SPEAKER_05: There's a portrait painted on the things we love.
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SPEAKER_08: And that's it. That was Articles of Interest. In its entirety. Because it is with a heavy heart and much, much gratitude that I'm leaving 99% invisible. It's been nearly seven incredible years since Roman Mars took a chance on an intern fresh out of college and kickstarted my career. Literally, his Kickstarter campaign got me hired. And 99% invisible hasn't just shaped the way I make radio. It's changed my philosophy on the built environment and the things people make and use. So thank you, thank you, thank you for filling my world with wonder. Thank you specifically to Chris Brube, Katie Mingle, Kurt Kohlstedt, Sean Real, Delaney Hall, Sharif Youssef, Emmett Fitzgerald, Vivian Le, Joe Rosenberg and most of all, Roman Mars. I am so lucky to have learned from all of your brilliance. And thank you, dear listener, for coming along for the ride. It's truly a luxury to be heard.
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